Why no SAS on "expo" type trucks???
- Thread starter codybutz
- Start date
I Leak Oil
Expedition Leader
Let's face it, where most people here drive their truck the benefits and durability of solids just aren't needed nor the associated cost.
I some what agree with those points. I would think sourcing early toyota straight axle parts would be easier then locating newer IFS parts, but what do I know. I thought of the weight issue as well but then I also thought of all the stuff that gets bolted to these trucks. This was just me thinking out loud and also some what stemming from an idea of converting a 2wd to 4wd.
_ExpeditionMan
Adventurer
As someone who drives a pretty popular SAS candidate I will weigh in on this. Have you ever seen a clean SAS rig? I can only think of one or two and they are both 1st gen 4Runners (who came with a SA for two years). Most SAS candidates are turned into Off Road buggies of sorts or are no longer (truly) feasible for DD duty. Furthermore, it seems by and large that most vehicles on this site are less than 10-12 years old, and tearing out an entire front suspension system is a big deal for a vehicle that "new".
All that being said I would love a SAS swap on my 2nd gen 4Runner, but keep it mild at a 2" lift, run 33s, and look stock. However, for the ~3-4k I would spend replacing a perfectly good suspension I could build out the other parts of my vehicle. The cost benefit, from an overlanding perspective, is just not worth it.
All that being said I would love a SAS swap on my 2nd gen 4Runner, but keep it mild at a 2" lift, run 33s, and look stock. However, for the ~3-4k I would spend replacing a perfectly good suspension I could build out the other parts of my vehicle. The cost benefit, from an overlanding perspective, is just not worth it.
I'm not trying to start a heated inter web shouting match, it was just an honest question. You are probably right about the tearing out a fairly new suspension. I wouldn't exactly call a 10-12 year old truck new, but to each their own. What about long travel suspensions then?? Any thoughts on that?? Again just having a civil conversation here, while i'm stuck indoors. 
_ExpeditionMan
Adventurer
I'm not trying to start a heated inter web shouting match, it was just an honest question. You are probably right about the tearing out a fairly new suspension. I wouldn't exactly call a 10-12 year old truck new, but to each their own. What about long travel suspensions then?? Any thoughts on that?? Again just having a civil conversation here, while i'm stuck indoors.
Oh man.. I didn't mean to come off argumentative or heated at all. You asked a relevant question and I was just trying to answer. One of the cons of the Internet is no tone able to come through. Sorry if you felt flamed! I think long travel would be awesome. Way cheaper than a SAS for sure, though you'd still have to deal with those pesky CVs. And yeah, 10-12 years old isn't really new, but considering the way all our Toyota's hold their value you are still playing with some serious cash.
My real question is why has no one come up with a better way to seal or protect the boots! I mean how hard could it possibly be to make some polymer snap on guards for the boots?
v_man
Explorer
Taking a rig from IFS to SAS usually implies you're also going to :
re-gear both diffs
get bigger tires
(sometimes) add a second transfer case , or lower gear set in existing t-case
add a locker, or lockers
add bumpers, sliders, or other armor
All that adds up to much more than the cost of a SAS , which isn't cheap to begin with. So to answer you're question I think most
people don't elect to go SAS because of the cost. And to be honest most well built IFS trucks can do 90% of the trails a SAS rig can do...
but those last 10% of trails are pretty fun :sombrero:
re-gear both diffs
get bigger tires
(sometimes) add a second transfer case , or lower gear set in existing t-case
add a locker, or lockers
add bumpers, sliders, or other armor
All that adds up to much more than the cost of a SAS , which isn't cheap to begin with. So to answer you're question I think most
people don't elect to go SAS because of the cost. And to be honest most well built IFS trucks can do 90% of the trails a SAS rig can do...
but those last 10% of trails are pretty fun :sombrero:
brianjwilson
Some sort of lost...
I'd say it depends on what the rig is intended for. Lots of highway miles, washboard roads, forest service roads, and occasionally harder trails, doesn't make a ton of sense to do a solid axle swap. After dealing with tons of issues on my last Jeep, I was fed up. GRANTED they were jeep problems not necessarily solid axle problems, had Jeep used decent steering hardware and such from the beginning.
A solid axle is definitely preferred by most for rock crawling. Otherwise it is a lot of unspring weight and custom parts and fabrication. More work to make a solid axle swap handle higher speed washboard road well, handle as smoothly on the road etc. It is a whole lot easier and quicker to bolt on some good coilovers, control arms and whatever is needed. A differential swap isn't difficult either. Stock replacement parts can be used in the field if needed.
A solid axle is definitely preferred by most for rock crawling. Otherwise it is a lot of unspring weight and custom parts and fabrication. More work to make a solid axle swap handle higher speed washboard road well, handle as smoothly on the road etc. It is a whole lot easier and quicker to bolt on some good coilovers, control arms and whatever is needed. A differential swap isn't difficult either. Stock replacement parts can be used in the field if needed.
deadbeat son
Explorer
I don't know that I've seen a SAS done with all factory Toyota parts.
cruiseroutfit
Well-known member
I suppose that entirely depends on where you plan to "expo" and what vehicle you're talking about. Finding Jeep JK axle components in remote Africa is going to be tough as the JK is only a few years deep in their market. Whereas a Toyota IFS or solid axle are quite common and outside of the Land Cruiser, the IFS stuff is as relatively common as it is here. Same for SoAm, Russia & Australia where the Hi-Lux and Prado platforms offer many carry-overs for the US models, particularly the 4Runner and GX470. For the LC, many of the foreign countries including Aus also go IFS models, so parts are easy to find. Fast forward to the 200 Series and it's global package is IFS so parts availability is universal throughout 6 continents.
Here in the US, you'd have an easier time finding IFS parts considering AutoZone, etc generally stock CV axles and Dorman (think HELP! aisle) makes upper and lower replacement control arms for IFS platforms.
Why is a SAS not more popular for "expo"? Well, I don't even know what "expo" means but I'll say that for long distance travel, the cross-sections of complexity, capability and cost often err to keeping things in stock form with the IFS given many of the benefits of a solid-axle (cross-axle flex, etc) are not needed for a White Rim or trip to Mexico.
photoman
Explorer
I'm not trying to start a heated inter web shouting match, it was just an honest question. You are probably right about the tearing out a fairly new suspension. I wouldn't exactly call a 10-12 year old truck new, but to each their own. What about long travel suspensions then?? Any thoughts on that?? Again just having a civil conversation here, while i'm stuck indoors.
I think it really depends on the same two factors as most things do: cost and intended purposes. When starting on my truck I considered all options, while I would have loved to go long travel for my usual off-road purposes it became clear that doing long travel correctly is similar to doing SAS correctly. There are a lot of parts that end up needing to be replaced, regearing, fab work, etc. While both those directions are great for their intended purpose (rock crawling or hauling *** in the desert) they don't necessarily do the other very well and neither are great on highway. Figuring I still drive 80% of the time on highways (even on a off road or photo trip) I personally opted for a mid-travel setup. It actually gave a significant improvement both on and off road without and major modifications.
tonkaman
Adventurer
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