Willys Wagon build?

[BBCchris]

Hey, any chance you would sell me the 3 inner and 1 outer windshield center trim pieces of of one of your wagons? I have a 62, but want to keep the split windshield look of the earlier models.

Sure. When do you need them by? Still got a bunch of snow around them and it hard to get out back. But if your not in a huge rush and can wait a few more weeks I'll send 'em over. Just pay for the shipping and they are yours.

-Chris

 

[Midnightburn]

No hurry. I can wait until the snow melts. Awesome! Just give me a call anytime and we can work out the details for shipping. Thanks!!!

208 863-1718

 

[BBCchris]

I was planning on doing a frame swap with a more modern jeep (TJ-L), but I think its not cost effective to do so. Every TJ that I find as a doner is fixable and I don't think I'll have the stones to toss it under the wagon. So, I think one of the other 4x4 wagon chassis will be the doner and use the tried and true leaf spring suspension.... but with longer springs and some frame boxing. Drive train I'm thinking of the 4.0L, AW4, 231 because they are dime a dozen and everywhere you look (read cheap). But I got a hankering for a diesel and I know the 4.0L will only get 18 on a good day in an XJ. A Liberty CRD really isn't much better on the fuel but still an improvement and can be had for not much more than a 4.0L, and now I spying on the Cummins b3.3t or even the qsb3.3t. They seem to get fairly good mileage mid 30's and you can tweak them a bit. The plus is that they are short and close to the weight of the 4.0L. The plus to the Cummins is that it can be bolted to a stock Jeep 5spd, low reving and smoother than the 4bt. The cost might put the squeeze on that, but it's less than the doner TJ would of been so I don't know yet. My plan is to pull this off, looking stock with a very minimal lift keeping the tires in the wheel wells. Power goals are economy/mileage not huge black smoke pouring hp.
I am also thinking of doing some sort of pop top / Westy style roof on it for a little more headroom and perhaps a place to sleep. Does anyone know a name of a place that sells a setup like that? Seen some of them on the full size vans (poptop's) and of course the VW Westys. So, this isn't going to be a restoration nor it's going to be a rock crawler I've done those before and now I want something that I can actually drive around and is reliable. Any thoughts?
If you couldn't tell the winter is making me all antsy to get going on this. I checked on the wagon this morning and the snow has melted down to mid door so as soon as it's removed from the snowy tomb it can begin.

-Chris :ylsmoke:

 

[Root Moose]

Will a 4.0 fit in the engine bay? It's been a long time since I've seen a WW up close but my minds eye is saying it might be a little tight for length?

Diesel is cool if you don't mind the upfront cost.

Consider a V8? Yes, been done to death but that is because it works.

There is a guy that added a Westy top to his XJ at Jeepforum.com:

http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=665127

 

[calamaridog]

Hmm, how about a 4.9L Ford inline 6 (300 I6)?:sombrero:

 

[BBCchris]

The 4.0l looks like it would fit in the newer wagons that had the Hurricane 6, but since mine is older and they only offered the 4cyl it will take some firewall modification. I think even the 6 cyl wagons would need a little more room. Everyone thinks that the wagons are big but in reality it's pretty much the same size as the XJ just a higher roof line. The 4.0l is the most cost effective way to do it because I already have all the parts. But your still left with low to mid teens for fuel mileage. If you figure out how much better the mileage would be with a diesel of some flavor.... say, low to mid 30's but at a cost of 5k for the mill. It's not hard to see the savings by using the 4.0l because it would take a long time to recoup the initial investment of the Cummins. Never really put much thought into doing a V8 I guess that an option but it has to be injected.

-Chris

 

[Root Moose]

FWIW, my stock, MY01 4.0 XJ got 20-22MPG on the hwy when new (to me). With the right gearing I'd expect mid to high teens in a WW - just as an off the cuff guess.

I'm a fan of the 4.0, I say go for it if you have a handle on what it takes to get it shoe horned in there.

As for recouping the costs with diesel, it is unlikely you ever will. The mathematics are not in your favour. Now if you want a diesel for the cool factor then that is completely separate. Diesel is currently ~5-10% more expensive than gas (IIRC) and you'll get 15-25% more economy if you are lucky. In a vehicle that will likely see low annual mileage relatively speaking. Economics/maths/pita don't make sense unless you really want a diesel engine (IMO).

 

[BBCchris]

FWIW, my stock, MY01 4.0 XJ got 20-22MPG on the hwy when new (to me). With the right gearing I'd expect mid to high teens in a WW - just as an off the cuff guess.

I'm a fan of the 4.0, I say go for it if you have a handle on what it takes to get it shoe horned in there.

As for recouping the costs with diesel, it is unlikely you ever will. The mathematics are not in your favour. Now if you want a diesel for the cool factor then that is completely separate. Diesel is currently ~5-10% more expensive than gas (IIRC) and you'll get 15-25% more economy if you are lucky. In a vehicle that will likely see low annual mileage relatively speaking. Economics/maths/pita don't make sense unless you really want a diesel engine (IMO).

That's what I was saying. No question its cool, but the numbers just aren't there. I'm very comfortable around the 4.0l and have stacks of parts in the garage. My mileage numbers were just a stab in the dark, I can't see it being better than the XJ due to the body shape of the Wagon. Although most of the dimensions and event the weight are very similar.

-Chris

 

[OverlandZJ]

Any updates Chris?

I need to be honest here, since you started this thread you got me all hot and bothered for a Wagon, and i'v been keeping my eyes open for a good project. Midnightburn's project certainly contributed as well.

Chris, you mentioned the newer models with the 6cyl and the possible need for firewall modifications (earlier 4cyl model) to the firewall for the 4.0L. From that i take it these vehicles were redesigned with a longer front end like the CJ's were once they intro'd the 258 6cyl?

Also, in my searching i see that there were a few with side windows AND the barn style rear doors. I like this combination, how rare was it?

 

[Desert Dan]

It would be great but a heck of a lot of work. We had a Willys Wagon from 1962-1981 (my dad bought it new).

In my opinion in the long run you would be better off starting with a newer vehicle (disc brakes, HVAC, parts availabilty when traveling etc.) or even a new JK Rubicon. Whenever I get sentimental I look at photos of my old Willys

If you want a project truck or restoration that would be great fun.

Willys of America has lots of info.

 

[ntsqd]

Were I going to Restorify (considerably different than "Restore") I would use a late model wreck as a donor for as much as I could salvage off of it. HVAC, power-train, axles, etc., etc., etc., possibly even the frame.

 

[Desert Dan]

Here are a few picture of the real deal Willys Expedition Wagon.

Whenever I think about finding another one and restoring/modifying a Willys I look at my old pictures.

 

[ntsqd]

Here are a few picture of the real deal Willys Expedition Wagon.

Whenever I think about finding another one and restoring/modifying a Willys I look at my old pictures.

Surprise Cyn & Ballarat back in the days before the wash-out?
Cool rig!

 

[Desert Dan]

Eureka Valley 1979 or 1980?

Baja in 1972 w/ my Dad

 

[WMac]

Here you go.

Vehicle:
1960 Willys wagon

Engine:
Four-bolt main Chevy 350

Transmission:
T-90

Transfer Case:
Spicer 18

Suspension:
Spring-over with Superlift shocks and Energy Suspension poly bushings.

Axles:
Dana 25 4.27 (front)
Dana 44 4.27 (rear)

Wheels:
Center Line Hellcats 15 x 8.5 with 3.75 inches backspacing.

Tires:
35-inch BF Goodrich Mud Terrains.

Built for:
Reasons we understand.

Value:
$18,000 and 5 years labor.