Winch question - steel vs synthetic rope
- Thread starter Thomas_ZA
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1stDeuce
Explorer
When my rope broke, it was under perhaps 7-8000lbs. It didn't exactly "fall to the ground" like everyone says it does. Mind you I wasn't using any sort of weight over the rope. (From what I've seen they don't do much, and the low energy stored in synthetic line makes them kind of pointless anyway.) The entire 85-90' of rope that was strung out piled up against the tree that I was pulling against. (Rope broke right at the fairlead.) I've seen 5/8" steel cable let go somewhere in the vicinity of 50k lbs, and it's not something you want to be near. I'm sure smaller steel cable is no picnic either.
My 5/16" synthetic rope breaking was very mild in comparison, and I doubt it would have been able to inflict any injury at all, even if someone had been standing right at the anchor point where the rope piled, but I want to be clear that it didn't just "fall to the ground" like everyone says it does... when I get new rope, I'll cut the old one under tension and video it. It's fairly benign, just not quite what everyone says...
My 5/16" synthetic rope breaking was very mild in comparison, and I doubt it would have been able to inflict any injury at all, even if someone had been standing right at the anchor point where the rope piled, but I want to be clear that it didn't just "fall to the ground" like everyone says it does... when I get new rope, I'll cut the old one under tension and video it. It's fairly benign, just not quite what everyone says...
Thirty-Nine
Explorer
Synthetic may not store the energy wire does, it takes a lot more for wire to break.
So I guess pick your poison: Hard to break, more potential energy or easier to break with less energy ...
So I guess pick your poison: Hard to break, more potential energy or easier to break with less energy ...
bob91yj
Resident **************
I'm a rock crawler by nature, I've worked course recovery in the past. I've seen too many synthetic ropes break when rubbed against a rock with no chaffe guard. Sure the rope is safer when it recoils, but the poor bastich that was trying to winch himself out of a predicament, not so much. I've seen some pretty severe roll overs when someone is in the middle of a recovery and the rope breaks. Fortunately I've never witnessed a steel cable come apart.
I currently have wire rope on both of my Jeeps. When it comes time for replacement I'll stick with the wire on my trailer queen rock crawler, but will probably switch the adventure travel Jeep over to synthetic rope...of course taht may be 30 years from now!
The bigger issue IMO is winching safely... keep spectators in a radius at least as far away as the amount of line you have out, never let anyone stand on the downhill side of a recovery. ONE DRIVER and ONE SPOTTER giving directions. Line weight if using steel, optional for syn rope. If you are winching to/from another vehicle make damn sure that what you are connecting to on the other vehicle is SOLID. I've been on a trail run where a guy got stuck, hooked up to the cheese ******** rear bumper (but the price was right) on the guy in front of him. Ended up pulling the whole damn bumper off of the anchor vehicle. You think running from a whiplashing cable is fun, try ducking a bumper flipping through the air (no one was hurt).
I currently have wire rope on both of my Jeeps. When it comes time for replacement I'll stick with the wire on my trailer queen rock crawler, but will probably switch the adventure travel Jeep over to synthetic rope...of course taht may be 30 years from now!
The bigger issue IMO is winching safely... keep spectators in a radius at least as far away as the amount of line you have out, never let anyone stand on the downhill side of a recovery. ONE DRIVER and ONE SPOTTER giving directions. Line weight if using steel, optional for syn rope. If you are winching to/from another vehicle make damn sure that what you are connecting to on the other vehicle is SOLID. I've been on a trail run where a guy got stuck, hooked up to the cheese ******** rear bumper (but the price was right) on the guy in front of him. Ended up pulling the whole damn bumper off of the anchor vehicle. You think running from a whiplashing cable is fun, try ducking a bumper flipping through the air (no one was hurt).
LR Max
Local Oaf
No. When mine broke (rope damaged due to operator error) it just fell to the ground.
The only relation was me cussing.
clandr1
Adventurer
My friend, you win the internet today.
AFBronco235
Crew Chief
To answer the original question, yes and no. What nobody has mentioned is that there are, IMHO, two types of roller fairleads. Overlapping, and non-overlapping. The difference is simple. The overlapping fairlead has the vertical rollers overlapping the horizontal rollers at the corners, or vice-versa. If you use overlapping rollers, synthetic rope works fine, so long as you're not a complete idiot anyways. Winching isn't exactly idiot proof to begin with. With non-overlapping rollers, the rope will get pinched between the rollers at the corners.
So yes to overlapping rollers, no to non-overlapping or hawsers.
Also, as a side note to safety, fairleads and hawsers are NOT DESIGNED for side pulling. They are only meant to guide the cable/rope as it is rolled up, not act as a pulley. Use a rated snatch block if you're going to be pulling more than a few degrees off from the winches natural direction of pull. You'll notice that when people do snap lines, weather synthetic or steel, its usually at the fairlead/hawser because they weren't designed for such action. This forces the ropes to bend sharper then they were designed to do and steel ropes will flatten and deform because the rollers don't cradle the rope as a snatch block would. Do it right and you won't have problems, regardless of what rope you use.
Here's an excellent source of winching info. Yes, it mainly refers to steel rope, but some of the actual winching info applies to synthetic as well.
http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/Recovery/
So yes to overlapping rollers, no to non-overlapping or hawsers.
Also, as a side note to safety, fairleads and hawsers are NOT DESIGNED for side pulling. They are only meant to guide the cable/rope as it is rolled up, not act as a pulley. Use a rated snatch block if you're going to be pulling more than a few degrees off from the winches natural direction of pull. You'll notice that when people do snap lines, weather synthetic or steel, its usually at the fairlead/hawser because they weren't designed for such action. This forces the ropes to bend sharper then they were designed to do and steel ropes will flatten and deform because the rollers don't cradle the rope as a snatch block would. Do it right and you won't have problems, regardless of what rope you use.
Here's an excellent source of winching info. Yes, it mainly refers to steel rope, but some of the actual winching info applies to synthetic as well.
http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/Recovery/
lugueto
Adventurer
I've witnessed a couple of cable breaks. While they thankfully didnt end in injury, the vehicles were pretty damaged by the broken cable. Scary stuff. Mind you, these were no 30 year old cables, 10 at most.
I havent seen a synthetic line break yet because the folks I know who run them do take good care of them, even while using them, but its obvious as far as strength goes, steel wins. But this doesn't mean that synthetics are weak.
Off course a rope will break when it is tight through rough edges, as well as a cable WILL break if it is neglected and poorly spooled after use. Nothing lasts forever, and you need to know what youre doing. Especially while performing a recovery
My case? Synthetic Rope is lighter and safer. If "less durable" means a rope will last 10 years, not 50, i'd choose light and safe over durable any day...
This might be an extreme example, but would you use a huge galvanized anchor chain instead of a snatch strap just because the chain will last 100 years??? a 30000lb rated snatchstrap is overkill for some vehicles, i dont wanna imagine what i would consider a similar sized chain....
I havent seen a synthetic line break yet because the folks I know who run them do take good care of them, even while using them, but its obvious as far as strength goes, steel wins. But this doesn't mean that synthetics are weak.
Off course a rope will break when it is tight through rough edges, as well as a cable WILL break if it is neglected and poorly spooled after use. Nothing lasts forever, and you need to know what youre doing. Especially while performing a recovery
My case? Synthetic Rope is lighter and safer. If "less durable" means a rope will last 10 years, not 50, i'd choose light and safe over durable any day...
This might be an extreme example, but would you use a huge galvanized anchor chain instead of a snatch strap just because the chain will last 100 years??? a 30000lb rated snatchstrap is overkill for some vehicles, i dont wanna imagine what i would consider a similar sized chain....
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98dango
Expedition Leader
I have both I run steel cable on my truck it's strong reliable and I grew up on a tow truck so I know what it can and can't do. On my wife's truck I run rope why because she will do some things that just ain't right. It's less weight for her to tote around won't get cut by a cable snag. Now do I have to take care of it you bet I replace every 2 years regardless her safety is #1 and if I can't spend $100 every couple of years to ensure that I need to examine our spending. Now what do I do with the old rope well I have one in each truck as an extension and gave one to my dad because he wanted to try it. Being a 30 year tow truck driver the rope ended up in the trash.
Lucky j
Explorer
Well for me, I have seen synthetic line snap way more than steel. I know steel will brake too of course, but I have not see one yet. But I have seen synthetic snap at more then one occasion, and they were not 10 year's old, not even 5 year's old, at most 2 years old in some case. 1 was even couple of month old only. And everytime to broke for any reason, I don't know why, they were Under load. Go figure, and they came back like a crazy rubber band when no one was expecting it. No sound, no vibration, not a strand at a time.
I like the way they feel, the way they are easy to handle and would love to put one on my jeep (soon to be two winch), but not sure I want to spend for a spare rope in the jeep.
I'm keeping and maintaining my trustry 15 year old steel and keeping the other one on the brand new rear winch.
Great post by the way.
I like the way they feel, the way they are easy to handle and would love to put one on my jeep (soon to be two winch), but not sure I want to spend for a spare rope in the jeep.
I'm keeping and maintaining my trustry 15 year old steel and keeping the other one on the brand new rear winch.
Great post by the way.
I've seen 3 lines break this winter, 1 at romp, 1 at vt winter challenge, and 1 at SCARR.
Never seen a steel line break in all the events I've been to and all the times I winched before switching to synth, and I'm positive I don't want to see that.
If I had the money I'd be running super fine steel cable, until then my Marlow hasn't let me down.
Oh and use roller fairleads on both, they work great and don't create as much friction as the hawse style.
Never seen a steel line break in all the events I've been to and all the times I winched before switching to synth, and I'm positive I don't want to see that.
If I had the money I'd be running super fine steel cable, until then my Marlow hasn't let me down.
Oh and use roller fairleads on both, they work great and don't create as much friction as the hawse style.