Yakima SkyRise RTT

[Lemsteraak]

Boxrocket, I agree, you are on the right track. I don't really mean to hijack this tread as it is about Yakima's tent and innovation but this discussion does have some relevance. One of the things that was stated earlier is that Yakima is re-inventing the mounting system. This is because they weren't part of the original discussion and we designed our equipment to work with their competitor's products. Now I know I'm talking old history and Yakima is a very different company today, but it does serve as a lesson. to collaborate and encourage new idea.

I think the best innovations come from collaboration. I believe that your new hard shelled tent would benefit with input from other sources. Your tent is similar to a tent that Zifer produced in the 90's that is now discontinued, a variant of the Maggiolina called the Adventure. It was boxy and quite flat with an integrated storage rack on top. The world has moved on, that tent was the gold standard for expedition tents in its day but vehicles have advanced and it is now an obsolete design.

Tepui is in the perfect place to collaborate with some of the finest designer and composite experts. Bill Lee, of Santa Cruz, is the first person I would talk to. He revolutionized racing sailboats 40 years ago and his designs are still wining races. Unfortunately we recently lost George Olson, but his compatriot Ron Moore is in Watsonville is an expert in composite construction. Larry Tuttle is also in Watsonville and is who the sailboat racing world talks to for hydrodynamics. Ballenger Spar is also in the same town and are experts in alloys and aluminum. I could go on but you get the idea.

Industry also can be a great resource to confirm your design. For example, Hummer handled crash testing our tents, there was no way we could do that ourselves but they were happy to test the concept and get back to us with ideas for improvements. So, Yakima will have to do all this on their own because they are re-inventing the mount system.

One thing that you excel in is bringing your customers into the fold. You gain their input and insights for free, and this advice has great value. Yakima will not have the benefit of this and it will take them time to overcome this advantage you have developed.

 

[rgsherr]

Lemsteraak - what tent is that?

 

[Christophe Noel]

How long is someone gonna keep a 2014 Subaru Forrester?
How easy is it to park a Forrester with a rack and RTT in a urban garage off a back alley?
So that tent has to be removed.

Most RTTs fit on nearly all small SUVs and crossovers in a standard garage. Mine does with no problem. The reality is, every year tens of thousands of small wagons and crossovers are fitted with Yakima or Thule cargo boxes, so Yakima saw that as an easy buy-in for the potential RTT user.

I travel most in a Jeep Patriot, because my first passion is road tripping to destinations to mountain bike, backpack and generally fart around in the outdoors. I either use a James Baroud Horizon RTT or a Yakima cargo box with ground tent and camping gear. It's about the same weight and volume at the end of the day.

There are already more people outside of the traditional overlanding segment buying RTTs than there are within the traditional overlanding audience. Go to a big 24 hour mountain bike race and you'll see scads of them. One of the oldest backpacking shops in Southern California sells more James Baroud tents than the so-called overland retailers in the area.

What Yakima is hoping to do is simply following the trends. Vehicles are getting smaller demanding lighter and more compact/convenient solutions. Overlanding as we know it is becoming more of a component in a more diverse set of pursuits. Some dude in a built Tacoma with lockers, bumpers, winch and Yakima RTT may not have a clue what overlanding is because he identifies with being a surfer, climber, bird watcher, what ever. Yakima is super smart to tap into that.

There is an old business adage, The cash is in the crossover.

 

[Cyclicalmotion]

Okay. All great points.
All I have been saying is that Yakima jumped in to this segment with a product that applies to those who don't really aim at the "Expedition" segment of overlanding.

My points about materials were vague.
Intentionally.
Honestly, I was discussing intent and not specific materials. Companies that began selling only running shoes are now making boots for hiking. Climbing companies are making running shoes and cycling shoes. To be honest, as labels go, Snow Peak, which makes beautiful equipment, is basically the Coleman of Japan, they literally make everything. (They just do it really well).
None of those comments address whether or not one thing is better than the other. (Except the Snow Peak / Coleman thing) my comments are addressed to the average buyer, and development to make the product address them.

As another anecdotal aside I present to the jury "GoreTex".
That stuff is crazy expensive. It used to be, that only the best stuff had it, It was all crazy expensive, Gore tested everything, it had to be liscensed and that cost crazy money, and everything else sucked.
Then other companies jumped into the fray to offer some kind of cheap alternative.
Some of those paled in comparison. Today I have boots with a breathable membrane are super cozy, and aren't Gore and I can completely depend on them.

At the same time, Gore kept developing. They have even better membranes now, and still work the same way. They are still expensive, and the absolute best uses it.
Arcteryx makes a $600 light rain Jacket. REI offers a comparable option that is less than half the cost, and about 90% as good.

If you perform in that last 10% the rest of the money for the Arcteryx makes sense. The rest of the reasoning makes sense.

If you only perform in the first 20% of that, then the REI jacket is so unbelievably good you would never know.

If you perform in the 75-95% area, that debate if which is best will rage on forever.

That's what makes all of companies, and the markets survive.

Tepui, CVT, Baroud, Ezi-Awn, they can all continue and still make amazing products. They can continue to develop, and be even better than they are now.

I see Yakima developing the tent that is used by the first 75% of the market.

 

[Cyclicalmotion]

Also, to address the garage thing.
I should have been more specific.
We should also be honest, regional architecture is.... well, Regional.
My garage door is eight feet tall.
My Tacoma is a little over six foot.
If I had a camper shell, that would be at six, depending on the model, up to seven feet.
Add to that a roof rack, then, the average RTT and we ripped the door off the garage.

This still applies to my girlfriends Honda Pilot.
Some of my customers BMW X5 whatever's and so on.

Even the Subaru Forrester is now currently a very tall vehicle.
Can some vehicle, rack, box, tent options fit? Sure.
Might they not?
That always is a possibility.

Very often do I have to send customers back to the drawing board because they find they find the combos for the rack and what they carry might not fit their garage and they refuse to load in the alley or the street.

I've had many customers destroy bikes on roof racks at drive thru ATM's.
**** happens.
Having the knowledge to prevent it is important.

 

[Cyclicalmotion]

Another separate point to be made is also about the Vehicles.
Not heights. Maybe purpose....
The portal has an interview with the folks at Turtle Expeditions.
They are currently using an F-550(?).
Many Americans use Trucks, Some SUVs, Jeeps, Etc.
The Jeep, the FJ, and the Land Rover started as military transports, then were marketed as agricultural vehicles. Much like Pickup Trucks.

These are industrial vehicles.
For years, they were not altered, they served industry. They were built with no compromise to strength.
Then they started to be used as regular vehicles.
That's why we got IFS on Trucks. Comfort and handling. Comfort and safety, corporate indemnity. (That very well could be the wrong word)

SUVs became popular because the first heavy gov't restrictions made the big station wagons of the 80's too expensive.
Trucks, and the enclosed Contractor grade Utility Vehicles, did not get hit with the first gas guzzler taxes.

Boom, kill the wagons, throw leather packages in the utility vehicles, load up the kids.

Then the gov't caught up.

The entry classes for Trucks have been hit. Look at the "aluminum " F-150. The Eco-diesels, etc.

Then there is the Honda Ridgeline. No Solid axle!

Engines must be more efficient (Atckinson Cycle Tacoma's? Honda? Eco-Beast Fords?)
Transmissions must be more efficient (8-10 spd automatics now right?) how will those react to wheel and tire size changes? Not just strength but also in computer management?
As this movement (it is beyond a trend) continues, weight management and engine management will be the biggest development.
Aftermarket power will be extremely difficult, and expensive. Weight will be paramount. Managing weight and aerodynamics will be the next wave for overlanding in America, especially for that first 75% I discussed.

The next 25% will be in bigger and heavier trucks, maybe Newer Wrangler Unlimiteds, whatever replaces the Defender, and Not much else outside of older vehicles. There bigger and heavier will remain for strength, as other options will appear to offer lighter weight to capitalize on efficiency while using better tech to provide strength and dependability. Which ultimately means companies like Yakima have to keep shaking it up to push lower cost material development.

 

[bshoeless]

Strong discussion going on here.
Great to see so much information.

I'll be honest, I'm the customer that Yakima is after....and I look forward to putting their RTT to the test.
Why?
You'll notice by my post count, Im not an avid "overlander". I do have a 4th gen 4runner with a mild lift and BFG KO2s. That's about the extent of my rig.
I live on the east coast and don't have the vast wilderness of the west. Most of my off roading adventures are short and are only to reach areas to fish or car camp.
It would've really come in handy this past weekend when I pulled into a National Park campsite at sundown after a long day getting outsmarted by trout.

The "lighter" weight is also a plus for me as I do sometimes need the rack for a canoe. I'd love to build a trailer but thats another discussion for the wife.

In the end, I know I don't need the most durable RTT on the market and think the Yakima will be a great fit for my adventures.


*edit* Really thought I had at least a couple posts here since joining 3 years ago......

 

[surferdude78]

Tepui Baja Series

Have you seen Tepui's new Baja Series that appears to have been introduced at Outdoor Retail the same time Yakima announced their new Skyline tent? Coincidence or not, it's also a lighter weight nylon but the canopy has a unique connection that allows one to switch the canopy with mesh within minutes.

Tepui Tents is proud to offer the patent-pending Baja SeriesTM Kukenam at special pre-order pricing. Pay full price now and save 10% off of MSRP. Tents will ship during the fall of 2016.

The patent-pending Baja SeriesTM roof-top tents utilize a Zipper GimpTM to attach the canopy to the tent base. Interchange the canopy depending on the conditions you face: a mesh shade canopy for hot humid weather or a lightweight nylon rip-stop canopy for spring time. A detachable rainfly is included.

Looks like they'll have them for sale next month. Considering I live in hot humid Florida this is a home run in my book! :wings:

http://tepuitents.com/collections/baja-series

 

[Beowulf]

The slimest folding RTT I know of is the MyWay (CampCover) Evolution and it is 10" thick and 95lbs. Sadly, you'd have to import it straight from South Africa. That is why I will most like go with the Yakima or Tepui.

 

[Allahades]

I just picked up a Yakima roof top tent and had the chance to mount it on a couple of vehicles today and play around with it a bit. Here are my immediate observations, although keep in mind that the only other roof top tents I've had a chance to see/use in person are an old Autohome hard shell tent and the soft sided Autohome Overland.

1.) The Yakima is lightweight for a RTT. My wife was able to help me mount it on an Xterra, then pull it down, remount it on my lifted GX, and then pull it down again. About a third to a quarter of the total weight is the ladder, which in theory could be reattached after mounting in order to make it even easier to lift. We lifted it with the ladder attached, and didn't have a problem, but I don't think my wife would have been able to help me with a heavier tent.

2.) The Yakima quick release mechanism makes it really easy to attach. No tools are needed, and it's just a couple of minutes to tighten/untighten the mounts. It sure beats having to wrench while your hand is twisted up under a cross rail. The downside is that the quick release adds two inches to the overall height of the tent.

3.) Set up and take down each took just a couple of minutes, including reattaching the cover. This surprised me, because take down has the reputation of being a more complicated process. The Yakima cover seems really well thought out. Corner zips, cinch straps, and velcro seams make it easy to put back on, and the final product is form fitting. To be perfectly honest, it closed down and was ready for the road as fast as the old Autohome hard shell I used to have.

5.) Closed, the main rectangle of the tent measures 48" x 56" x 9" high. The ladder adds 3" on top of that. The quick release adds 2" below.

6.) Materials are lightweight, but only compared to canvas tents. Compared to my REI Kingdome 6, the Yakima is much heavier duty. Still, the Yakima is clearly meant for weekend warriors, not someone traversing the Darien Gap.

Again, I haven't seen or used any modern RTTs, so I all this is relative to what was being produced 10+ years ago, and is just my impressions after playing with the tent for a couple of hours.

 

[Beowulf]

Thank you for sharing? Could it be mounted without the quick-mount system?

 

[Allahades]

It's not meant to be mounted without using the quick mounts, but I think it would be possible to rig something up. The easiest way to dispense with the quick mounts might be to attach a pair of extruded aluminum rails purchased from Tepui or CVT, and then mount it using the same bolts they use on their tents.

 

[Cyclicalmotion]

We got one in and I set it up.
Mounting hardware is solid enough. Made to fit Yakima aero profile bars, (which would work with just about everything else) supplied are inserts to fit square and round bars.

It's nice. It's cozy. I fit two big dudes in the two man, (me being one of em, I wear a 58 reg suit coat. I'm a wide dude) it was tight but it wasn't unbearable.

 

[Cyclicalmotion]

All things being said:
It's a solid setup.

Much of this discussion was based around materials.
How will it last... etc.
These are all synthetics. UV light kills em all. The more we have them out, the more they degrade.

Which is why..... they all come with covers. Those are all made of the same rubberized truck tarp.
Which means..... they all, when packed properly, will withstand the same amount of abuse while we are driving.

Those who are weary of durability should not fear. This stuff is thicker than the fourseason base tents I've seen. If they can handle arctic snowstorms and Himalayan hurricane force winds. This will too. The fly is still a fly, but its heavier duty than on comparable three season tents out there.

The previous comparison to an REI Kingdome 6 is applicable. The Skyrise is much heavier duty than that, which is made for six grown men to walk around in with boots on varied terrain.

I myself have a REI Taj three man (three season) tent that is now almost fifteen years old. Still putting up the good fight, I take care of it, it takes care of me.
Just did a camp last year where it withstood a ten hour biblical downpour.
I've slept sound while six inches of snow fell.

I would not expect any less of this, as it's built much better than that. much more rugged than that old Taj.

I don't know about the Tepui tents, but one thing that I saw and found to be a nice touch was that all of the screen panels could be zipped open. Like my dads old canvas expedition tent. You could even stand up if you had the fly off. I like the idea of having a really nice perch like that. I thought it was a nice touch.

 

[Box Rocket]

I am almost certain I saw an 8" model from one of the bigger manufacturers. Still too big

The Tepui White Lighting is the slimmest hard shell at 8"