Yotalockers.com - ELockers for All Offroad Toyotas

[Blackdawg]

I don't understand why they are so expensive. If these where more competitively priced to an arb, Id consider it. /QUOTE]
You are correct - they cost more. ARB sells 40,000 air lockers per year and cranks them out on a large scale. Harrop is a low volume engineering firm and efficiencies of scale are completely different.

ARBs are fine and work well for most folks, as they apparently do for you.

That said, prices are comparable if you compare with cost of compressor and increased price of installation.

Finally, we have seen a number of ARBs de-installed to have Harrops replace them. The reasons stated by those purchasers have to do with air line leaks, o ring failure, relay / switch / wiring failure and generally higher levels of maintenance required - their words, no ours.
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To support those "converts" we offer a $75 rebate on the Harrops to help cover the cost of replacement. We require proof of ARB install to document, but happy to help with the cost. Pull the ARB, sell it to a friend and everybody wins!

Bottom line - the ARBS and the Harrop / Eaton solution are comparable, but so are a Jeep and a Toyota

I don't see how they are comparable to price even with those factors.

A) most people have OBA already so hard to factor that in anyways.

B) even if you do it's only 2-400 more dollars if that. If you run a small CO2 setup using paintball canisters it's like $150 bucks.

Two of the Harrops cost $2628

Two arbs are 1800ish.

I just don't understand why there is an $800 differenace. That's another whole arb locker.

 

[Ward Harris]

If you run the numbers for a two locker install,Harrops are $2,628 when not on special. ARBs are $1,900 plus compressor $200-400 if you want to fill tires, plus misc. install parts $100, plus 4 to 6 hours to install compressor/tank @ $40-100 per hour shop labor = $2,200 if you buy a low volume ARB compressor and install it yourself, up to $3,000 if you get a decent compressor to fill tires and have the system installed at a shop at the higher range of install time and labor rate. Set up and install of the diffs are the same for ARBs and Harrops in most cases.

 

[theBullfrog125]

It's nice to have another option besides ARB for a selectable locker in the 8.4" diff. I'm liking the idea of an eLocker better than an ARB solely because it is much easier to install and not as many parts involved, its a simpler wheel.

Obviously people are going to pick their sides.

ARB has an excellent track record for reliability but it seems the people that really use the heck out of them find out they aren't the best thing since sliced bread. Time will tell but I'd like to see how durable the Harrop is long term.

 

[Ward Harris]

ARB has an excellent track record for reliability but it seems the people that really use the heck out of them find out they aren't the best thing since sliced bread. Time will tell but I'd like to see how durable the Harrop is long term.

They are eight years into production/service life in Australia and very good reports. If any long term owners from AUS/NZ are out there, please chime in.

Terrain Tamer is Harrop's primary distribution partner, selling hundreds and hundreds per year. Our part of that is over 100 per year in North America. We simply have not had anything but positive results with the earliest North American installs three or four years old.

Truly, to each his own - ARBs are fine, just different.

 

[Blackdawg]

What is the advantage or unlocking when backing up? Or does it lock back up if you are reversing out of a tricky spot and it just unlocks on a sudden change of direction?

 

[Ward Harris]

They unlock briefly on change of direction, and re-engage when heading back the other way, immediately and without any drama or uncertainty.

It has been explained to us that the Eaton pin / ring system is designed to de-stress the axle when changing directions. Throttle, axle loads, adrenaline, testosterone - a mix of factors that can result in broken bits. This system may not be for the guy who gets bogged down in gumbo and then decides to power out, rocking back/forth, quickly slamming an automatic front to back.

My own experience with a built BJ73 (Harrops front and rear) was that they did what they were supposed to. I sold that rig to keep the wife happy - it had an LS3 Corvette motor and a H55 5 speed - a little rough, a little loud. Replaced it with the Tacoma which will get its second Harrop in front for Christmas. Anyway, I found the Harrops to work just fine on slippery rocks, mud, gravel, etc. No drama, not getting stuck.

The guy I sold it to (a good friend and Cruiser-head) drove it a little more aggressively and loves the Harrops - he has installed many, many of the other brand of air lockers and still does so at his shop. But he sure likes the Harrops. But....

He was out a couple of months ago, playing on trails and got himself in a sticky situation (I was not there) and apparently, he got bound up and needed to fire up the front Harrop. Not bogged down, but a rock obstacle that needed some front and back, which he applied. Good news is that he used a fair bit of power and got out but broke a front axle shaft. I had not upgraded the shafts, in part because I wanted to see what would break - and something always brakes if you play hard enough.

The drivetrain did just fine except the axle shaft - including the Harrop that actuated and released with each cycle front/back/front/back, etc. They locked when instructed, unlocked at the directional changed and immediately relocked automatically when put back in motion in the other direction. And the Corvette motor didn't break them or produce any negative results from the loud pedal.

After the Tacoma is done, I am planning on a lightly used 200 Series with dual Harrops, Terrain Tamer brakes, Terrain Tamer suspension and a Magnuson supercharger, which will match the Corvette motor I had in the BJ 73. The Harrops have proven that they can handle that kind of output and reasonable levels of use/abuse on the trail.

 

[toyotech]

Do they need power to stay locked? I see one in my 1st gen tundra soon!!


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[Ward Harris]

Do they need power to stay locked? I see one in my 1st gen tundra soon!!

Yessir - as with most manual lockers, no power no locker. If you lose a compressor, relay, airline - OR wire connection on a Harrop, you are unlocked. If a limb jumps up and stags your air line or wiring harness you are SOL either way.

Very happy to have a rear elcocker for the "American" rear diffs for T100, early Tundra, Tacoma, Sequoia, etc. It took three months from the time we sent Harrop the 8.4" sample carrier/diff until we had the first one for install in my Tacoma. Excellent support for our market.

Some big news coming for later Tundras as well - not in time for Christmas - but working on Harrops for front/rear of the "big" Tundra.

Stay tuned.

 

[toyotech]

Yessir - as with most manual lockers, no power no locker. If you lose a compressor, relay, airline - OR wire connection on a Harrop, you are unlocked. If a limb jumps up and stags your air line or wiring harness you are SOL either way.

Very happy to have a rear elcocker for the "American" rear diffs for T100, early Tundra, Tacoma, Sequoia, etc. It took three months from the time we sent Harrop the 8.4" sample carrier/diff until we had the first one for install in my Tacoma. Excellent support for our market.

Some big news coming for later Tundras as well - not in time for Christmas - but working on Harrops for front/rear of the "big" Tundra.

Stay tuned.

Ah was hoping to have it similar to Toyota factory elocker. Doesn't need power to stay locked. Still prefer elocker over air locker (arb) any day.


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[theBullfrog125]

Ah was hoping to have it similar to Toyota factory elocker. Doesn't need power to stay locked. Still prefer elocker over air locker (arb) any day.


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I can see the merit in having the locker stay locked without power.. like if you are going up an obstacle and lose power to the locker somehow.
But if the OEM elocker is locked and you lose power to it then you will have to trailer the rig home because it won't be road worthy totally locked up.

Now it would be nice for the locker to stay locked up if you kill your truck going up an obstacle.. but really that's only an issue for manual trucks.. and if you wire the relay to an ignition source (not sure why anyone would do that, I'd use a relay and go straight to the battery).

 

[Blackdawg]

I can see the merit in having the locker stay locked without power.. like if you are going up an obstacle and lose power to the locker somehow.
But if the OEM elocker is locked and you lose power to it then you will have to trailer the rig home because it won't be road worthy totally locked up.

Now it would be nice for the locker to stay locked up if you kill your truck going up an obstacle.. but really that's only an issue for manual trucks.. and if you wire the relay to an ignition source (not sure why anyone would do that, I'd use a relay and go straight to the battery).

Nah the factory e locker is easy to engage or disengage with a screw driver if you loose all electric power some how or blow the actuator.

 

[Ward Harris]

"Always engaged" is a positive point for OEM elocker in some situations. With the Harrop , when changing direction, the pins ramp down to the "dis-engaged mode" and then ramps back up to engaged again. ...very transparent. But the degree to which the issue is significant depends upon a specific situation and the operator's behavior. Further in slamming the gears back and forth (stuck in a mud hole or teeter tottering on some boulders) does tire speed difference change due to entering unlock/open mode and does it even make a difference in tire speed left to right? Just asking, not promoting a particular position on the subject.

I would suggest that the trade off can be seen in the OEM elocker's added complexity. OEM Toyota cable and elockers for the Land Cruisers are both subject to required maintenance and repair with years of use (if not abuse). Many parts are getting hard to source for these units 20 or 30 years down the line. Also, the Land Cruiser elockers are subject to damage from rocks, limbs, etc. due to external components.

Yes,there are lots of take-out OEM 8" units in the salvage market and a realtively simple swap, but near as I know, 12volt guy is the only one now that offers a harness for them http://www.12voltguy.com/89-02-e-locker.html and adding an oem elocker to your axle housing requires grinding, plus are the axle splines actually long enough to pass all the way into the sidegears for 100% coverage? If not,the passenger sidegear can grenade.

Life is a series of trade-offs and an informed purchaser is always going to make a better decision with better results. I am not saying you should buy/not buy and install a Harrop, ARB, Zip, OEM take-out - there are plusses and minuses to each. Based upon my needs, wants, preferences and budget, I went with Harrops BEFORE our firm started selling them. I am an expedition style user, dong some rock/mud stuff, but not likely going to be mud-bogging

 

[toyotech]

I can see the merit in having the locker stay locked without power.. like if you are going up an obstacle and lose power to the locker somehow.
But if the OEM elocker is locked and you lose power to it then you will have to trailer the rig home because it won't be road worthy totally locked up.

Now it would be nice for the locker to stay locked up if you kill your truck going up an obstacle.. but really that's only an issue for manual trucks.. and if you wire the relay to an ignition source (not sure why anyone would do that, I'd use a relay and go straight to the battery).

Like blackdawg said. It easy to lock and unlock without power and much tools to do it.

Nah the factory e locker is easy to engage or disengage with a screw driver if you loose all electric power some how or blow the actuator.

Yup. Never had to but being able to over arb was a plus

"Always engaged" is a positive point for OEM elocker in some situations. With the Harrop , when changing direction, the pins ramp down to the "dis-engaged mode" and then ramps back up to engaged again. ...very transparent. But the degree to which the issue is significant depends upon a specific situation and the operator's behavior. Further in slamming the gears back and forth (stuck in a mud hole or teeter tottering on some boulders) does tire speed difference change due to entering unlock/open mode and does it even make a difference in tire speed left to right? Just asking, not promoting a particular position on the subject.

I would suggest that the trade off can be seen in the OEM elocker's added complexity. OEM Toyota cable and elockers for the Land Cruisers are both subject to required maintenance and repair with years of use (if not abuse). Many parts are getting hard to source for these units 20 or 30 years down the line. Also, the Land Cruiser elockers are subject to damage from rocks, limbs, etc. due to external components.

Yes,there are lots of take-out OEM 8" units in the salvage market and a realtively simple swap, but near as I know, 12volt guy is the only one now that offers a harness for them http://www.12voltguy.com/89-02-e-locker.html and adding an oem elocker to your axle housing requires grinding, plus are the axle splines actually long enough to pass all the way into the sidegears for 100% coverage? If not,the passenger sidegear can grenade.

Life is a series of trade-offs and an informed purchaser is always going to make a better decision with better results. I am not saying you should buy/not buy and install a Harrop, ARB, Zip, OEM take-out - there are plusses and minuses to each. Based upon my needs, wants, preferences and budget, I went with Harrops BEFORE our firm started selling them. I am an expedition style user, dong some rock/mud stuff, but not likely going to be mud-bogging

Not arguing which is better. I just like to know if the harrop elocker needs constant power or not. The elocker is a simple design in that it just slides a sleeve over and it's locked or unlocked. But I'm sure you know this.
I have retro fitted one in my 88 runner and would have to my tundra of the housing wasn't so different. In the 4-5 years of abusing my elocker (not really) I'm not the throttle happy wheeling type. I haven't had any issues. I also did my own switch and wiring. Didn't buy any kits.

Also I have 3 spare elockers

I really like the harrop elocker in that it's not an ARB. Elocker is a much simpler system imo. I really want to go harrop but my friend can get me ARB stuff for a really good price. I'll keep researching and decide when the time comes. Thanks for all the help



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[Ward Harris]

Like blackdawg said. It easy to lock and unlock without power and much tools to do it.



Yup. Never had to but being able to over arb was a plus



Not arguing which is better. I just like to know if the harrop elocker needs constant power or not. The elocker is a simple design in that it just slides a sleeve over and it's locked or unlocked. But I'm sure you know this.
I have retro fitted one in my 88 runner and would have to my tundra of the housing wasn't so different. In the 4-5 years of abusing my elocker (not really) I'm not the throttle happy wheeling type. I haven't had any issues. I also did my own switch and wiring. Didn't buy any kits.

Also I have 3 spare elockers

I really like the harrop elocker in that it's not an ARB. Elocker is a much simpler system imo. I really want to go harrop but my friend can get me ARB stuff for a really good price. I'll keep researching and decide when the time comes. Thanks for all the help

This offroad stuff is a team sport

 

[tyv12]

Very cool option glad to read some development for our gen tundras


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