Zero Motorcycles offers to pay for first 25,000 miles

[sandalscout]

Therein lies the problem. If it doesn't have a self-generating power source on board, it isn't an ultra-low or no emissions moto - as has been stated, it is just a coal or natural gas-powered vehicle, and all you're doing is moving the emissions from a tail pipe on the bike to a coal-burning power plant in someone else's back yard.

Yes, except that in my limited exposure to the numbers, it seems that the general consensus by those in the know is that coal fire generation is at least 30% less CO2 producing than burning gasoline in small scale ICEs (aka, cars) per volume of energy. I know that a lot more factors tie into this, but once the "grid" is in place to get the electricity around, I can't imagine how a large scale utility generating one KWH of electricity is not more efficient than someone doing the same with gasoline in their car. The infrastructure to move gasoline around is likely more expensive and more CO2 emitting than the same for coal fire electric plants.

Not advocating coal fire power plants, I know the nastiness associated with them, just throwing hypothetical numbers out there.

 

[Schattenjager]

Remember the three lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics

To have a complete picture you must include all the aspects - coal does not magically appear at the energy plant - it must be mined, refined, and transported and these facets take energy. Also, the electric car / bike is manufactured at a plant that uses electricity, paint, thinner, rubber and plastics. Then there are the tires...

While I appaulde the pursuit of a better, more economical mousetrap, I do not endorse fabrications to 'support' a legislative pet project of the uninformed. The fact is we are FAR from running out of oil. Alaska likely has more than the middle east, but doggedly misrepresenting facts and refusing to go get it forces the alternative crowd to select facts to propel an industry who's time has not yet come.

If someone wishes to drive an electric vehicle because they like it, I can back that 100%! Just don't lie to me nor yourself in thinking that it is somehow saving the planet.

Yes, except that in my limited exposure to the numbers, it seems that the general consensus by those in the know is that coal fire generation is at least 30% less CO2 producing than burning gasoline in small scale ICEs (aka, cars) per volume of energy. I know that a lot more factors tie into this, but once the "grid" is in place to get the electricity around, I can't imagine how a large scale utility generating one KWH of electricity is not more efficient than someone doing the same with gasoline in their car. The infrastructure to move gasoline around is likely more expensive and more CO2 emitting than the same for coal fire electric plants.

Not advocating coal fire power plants, I know the nastiness associated with them, just throwing hypothetical numbers out there.

 

[Clutch]

Remember the three lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics

Yep it is all BS, just another way to make money...praying on people's guilt to make money that is...


The Earth has been through much worse than Humans.:ylsmoke: As a type this on a my Chinese made laptop, that was shipped across the ocean via a diesel powered container ship, then loaded on a diesel semi truck to the computer store...which is powered by a coal fired electric power plant... all that coal was transported on a diesel locomotive. And thank goodness for that, or I wouldn't be able the recharge my battery that was made from mined lithium.

I don't know why all the hatred towards coal and petroleum....after all, it is organic stored solar energy made by Mother Nature herself, and a little help from the Sun.


:lurk:

 

[Clutch]

I guess we disagree. That's not to say that I am a fan of Zeros. I just feel that if performance numbers improve, I see some benefit to ultra low or no emmissions motos. To me electric bike viability doesn't hinge on having a self generating power source on board.

For an electric bike to be viable to me, it has to leaps and bounds better than a petrol driven one. Better range, more power, lighter, and absolutely has to "refuel" in the same time or less than its' petrol counterpart. It takes (what) under a minute to splash in some fuel....seconds if you have a dump can, for a petrol powered bike.

The major stumbling block for a battery powered electric bike is...well...that pesky thing called physics.

I also distinguish getting 25mpg from a 4x4 as being superior to getting 15mpg.

Sure most of us would prefer 25mpg over 15 mpg...at least for range and less trips to the pump. But as an emissions stand point I could really care less. The Earth itself has produced far more toxic emissions than humans have, or perhaps ever will.