Jim, I apologize for the delay in getting back to you, but at your request, I had one of our engineers review this thread and my response. In reference to HenryJ's comment about testing a YellowTop manufactured in our Monterrey facility in 2006, he wanted me to point out that ground may not have even been broken on that facility in 2006 and it certainly wasn't producing batteries at that point.
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He also appreciates Jim's (teotwaki) suggestion for a new product in post #51. He agrees that not all vehicle charging systems are created equal, but that a stock vehicle charging system in proper working order will have no trouble maintaining our batteries. He also mentioned that the batteries in teotwaki's dual system are seeing substantially different use, with the starting battery only seeing very shallow discharge due to starting. He also asked if the voltage measured at the posts of both batteries while the engine was running was identical?
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He indicated the charging sequence in post #56 is for a battery charger is a “generic” description of AGM charging. While the voltages may not be exactly correct for a specific AGM battery brand or type, they're pretty good for an Optima. He also noted the voltages for Stage 1 and 2 are the same- 2.4-2.45/cell (14.4-14.7 volts), which is where the battery is charged and the voltages noted are pretty close to the typical alternator output voltage range discussed in this thread and should result in a good state of charge with an Optima battery. From our engineer's perspective, flooded and AGM starting batteries don't need much of anything different to be charged by an alternator. Similarly, an AGM or flooded deep-cycle battery don't need much different to be charged by an alternator. The charge ranges can be different between a starting or deep-cycle/dual purpose battery, but they probably overlap.
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I cannot speak on behalf of other AGM manufacturers, but as you indicated in the first line of our recommended charging information that you posted, if your alternator is putting out 13.65 to 15.0 volts with no amperage limit, we feel it can properly-maintain any of our batteries under normal operating conditions. However, even if your battery only operated your refrigerator for 40 hours every month, it would be good practice to periodically check the voltage level of the battery and fully-charge it with a battery charger, if needed.
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Vehicles with significant electrical demands, whether they are lavishly-equipped new luxury cars (many of which come with AGM batteries from the factory) or older vehicles with aftermarket components, place heavy demands on their charging systems. Even if those charging systems are theoretically up to the task of maintaining those batteries, driving habits may not allow those systems to keep pace with the electrical demands of those vehicles. To a vehicle's charging system, there is a world of difference between 40 hours of drive time on the highway and 40 hours of commuter traffic driving.
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I'm sorry you feel as if I'm attacking anyone, as that certainly isn't my intent. I'm merely pointing out the sales brochure you previously-linked stressed that vehicle charging systems are limited to 13.8 volts, which I personally have not found to be the case at all, nor have you or even the third Jim in this thread. Optima doesn't have a vested interest in selling people new alternators or wiring, but I spend all day telling folks the best battery in the world is only as good as the charging system that maintains it and the wiring that connects it.
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As you compare the quality of our batteries with others, you are basing your comparsions on dissimilar applications- the apples of a starting battery to the oranges of an auxiliary battery. I understand you don't feel your batteries are being abused and you certainly don't strike me as the kind of person who would intentionally abuse anything you own.
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In the end, it may not be an issue of a charging system, wiring, battery or specific charging sequences, but rather how the vehicle is used. Reverting to a simplistic example with the Corvette owners, if any C6 owner only drives his car to shows on the weekends and leaves it sit unused on the other days, he will likely find his battery (regardless of brand) won't last very long. Honestly, if the starting & auxiliary positions were reversed and you were having trouble with any other brand of battery, I'd offer the same advice- try swapping the battery positions, if you are convinced they are the issue.
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Do you recaall the voltages of the two YellowTops and BlueTop when you replaced them and the circumstances surrounding their replacement?
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Jim McIlvaine
eCare Manager, OPTIMA Batteries, Inc.
www.facebook.com/optimabatteries
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He also appreciates Jim's (teotwaki) suggestion for a new product in post #51. He agrees that not all vehicle charging systems are created equal, but that a stock vehicle charging system in proper working order will have no trouble maintaining our batteries. He also mentioned that the batteries in teotwaki's dual system are seeing substantially different use, with the starting battery only seeing very shallow discharge due to starting. He also asked if the voltage measured at the posts of both batteries while the engine was running was identical?
.
He indicated the charging sequence in post #56 is for a battery charger is a “generic” description of AGM charging. While the voltages may not be exactly correct for a specific AGM battery brand or type, they're pretty good for an Optima. He also noted the voltages for Stage 1 and 2 are the same- 2.4-2.45/cell (14.4-14.7 volts), which is where the battery is charged and the voltages noted are pretty close to the typical alternator output voltage range discussed in this thread and should result in a good state of charge with an Optima battery. From our engineer's perspective, flooded and AGM starting batteries don't need much of anything different to be charged by an alternator. Similarly, an AGM or flooded deep-cycle battery don't need much different to be charged by an alternator. The charge ranges can be different between a starting or deep-cycle/dual purpose battery, but they probably overlap.
.
I cannot speak on behalf of other AGM manufacturers, but as you indicated in the first line of our recommended charging information that you posted, if your alternator is putting out 13.65 to 15.0 volts with no amperage limit, we feel it can properly-maintain any of our batteries under normal operating conditions. However, even if your battery only operated your refrigerator for 40 hours every month, it would be good practice to periodically check the voltage level of the battery and fully-charge it with a battery charger, if needed.
.
Vehicles with significant electrical demands, whether they are lavishly-equipped new luxury cars (many of which come with AGM batteries from the factory) or older vehicles with aftermarket components, place heavy demands on their charging systems. Even if those charging systems are theoretically up to the task of maintaining those batteries, driving habits may not allow those systems to keep pace with the electrical demands of those vehicles. To a vehicle's charging system, there is a world of difference between 40 hours of drive time on the highway and 40 hours of commuter traffic driving.
.
I'm sorry you feel as if I'm attacking anyone, as that certainly isn't my intent. I'm merely pointing out the sales brochure you previously-linked stressed that vehicle charging systems are limited to 13.8 volts, which I personally have not found to be the case at all, nor have you or even the third Jim in this thread. Optima doesn't have a vested interest in selling people new alternators or wiring, but I spend all day telling folks the best battery in the world is only as good as the charging system that maintains it and the wiring that connects it.
.
As you compare the quality of our batteries with others, you are basing your comparsions on dissimilar applications- the apples of a starting battery to the oranges of an auxiliary battery. I understand you don't feel your batteries are being abused and you certainly don't strike me as the kind of person who would intentionally abuse anything you own.
.
In the end, it may not be an issue of a charging system, wiring, battery or specific charging sequences, but rather how the vehicle is used. Reverting to a simplistic example with the Corvette owners, if any C6 owner only drives his car to shows on the weekends and leaves it sit unused on the other days, he will likely find his battery (regardless of brand) won't last very long. Honestly, if the starting & auxiliary positions were reversed and you were having trouble with any other brand of battery, I'd offer the same advice- try swapping the battery positions, if you are convinced they are the issue.
.
Do you recaall the voltages of the two YellowTops and BlueTop when you replaced them and the circumstances surrounding their replacement?
.
Jim McIlvaine
eCare Manager, OPTIMA Batteries, Inc.
www.facebook.com/optimabatteries