Torsion Axle for camping trailer

[gabepari]

Which did you prefer and why? Thanks

Leafs by far. 8" of buttery smooth damped travel (about 3.5" of bump and 4.5" of droop) gobbled up every bit of washboard, and Racetrack Road HAS some washboard We pulled up to the Grandstand, opened the galley hatch, popped open an icy cold bottle of Boylan rootbeer without a hint of foaming. This time I was driving my FJ80, it's pretty smooth on the washboard BUT I think I would have rather been riding in the trailer

 

[adventureduo]

We had Torsion suspension on our last trailer. I'll be blatantly honest. It sucked. They were rated for too much of a load, so in order for it to ride smoothly we'd have to load it down with what should be sand bags before heading out. I believe they were 3400# load torsions and that had a lot to do with it. We had to air down the tires for any adequate suspension to soak up bumps and washboard.

I'll put it this way, with the Torsion suspension i used to watch the RTT in the rear view mirror. Judging by the way it was bouncing up and down in the mirror i could adjust my driving technique and speed. Now with our leafsprung suspension in our current trailer with proper load rating/progressive pack and adjustable shocks i watch my side mirrors for movement in the tire/wheel only. If i look in my rear view mirror i see the trailer sitting still as if it were parked.

With the torsion i broke soda cans, beer bottles, cream cheese tubs, coffee creamer, eggs, lanterns you name it. Hell i even broke off a regulator off my bbq once.

With the leafs i've never broke a thing yet and we're going on a year with it. The thing just floats.

There's a huge difference to be said for correct suspension dynamics no matter what you choose.

 

[skersfan]

Again, there is no need for a 3400 pound torsion axle on a expedtion trailer. Our max weight would be 2000 pounds is my guess. Mine is right there, I use a 2500 pound axle on mine, works perfectly. Some where along the line we have decided that 3500 pound axles are the right application. I understand the stronger bearings and all, but you can order those with the 2500 pound torsion axle. I think all of the problems people are having with them are related to over doing the axle weight. Most who use spring axles use the 3500 and down grade the springs/leafs. With the torsion axle you can order down to the weight you need. It is decided by the rubber in the center. If they are no ordered properly you will have problems as there really is no after modification.

Dexter offers the axle from 1900 to 3400, then 3500 to 4900, 5000 to 9900. You can chose any number in between and they custom make them for you to your requirements. The new 5 and 10 thousand pound axles offer a air bag, but do not offer if below as of yet.

You can order pretty much anything from disc I have heard to parking brakes and any bolt pattern.

My guess is that AT ordered a 3500 pound axle, which would be the norm. I can just imagine how rough it would ride and bounce would be unbearable, with no way of correcting it other than overloading the trailer, which would be near impossible.

Torsion axles have to be ordered for specific weight and use. If you don't I can see how the problems would occur.

 

[gabepari]

Bob (skersfan),

I agree, a torsion rated too high is a horrible thing (as is an over rated leaf), BUT even at the correct load rating (We use 35-50 torsions a year on our road trailers and we're perfectly familiar with "de-rating" them via the internal rubbers), the torsion will never approach the dynamics of a properly rated leaf and shock combo. Torsions are used primarily because they require less maintenance than a leaf setup, they are quieter, and WAY faster/easier to install, while under "normal" circumstances providing an "acceptable" level of suspension.

We can trade opinions till we're blue in the face, but the end result must be that the end user is happy. For some, that means torsion axles, for others... something else.

 

[skersfan]

I agree totally, but I am a loyal Dexter user and had to defend them as being a poor choice. Also a much easier set up as you have stated and it makes the frame much stornger, with the added cross bar so to speak. I plan to put a lot of miles on my new trailer this summer, pretty much anywhere and everywhere. We will see how it holds up. If it fails you guys will be the first to know, as I am want it to be the best I can make it.

 

[gabepari]

Not a "poor" choice, just a different choice in my book. We use them all the time, just different applications is all.

I doubt you'll break it, if you do it's because you did something extremely stupid and other stuff will probably break in the process

Gabe

I agree totally, but I am a loyal Dexter user and had to defend them as being a poor choice. Also a much easier set up as you have stated and it makes the frame much stornger, with the added cross bar so to speak. I plan to put a lot of miles on my new trailer this summer, pretty much anywhere and everywhere. We will see how it holds up. If it fails you guys will be the first to know, as I am want it to be the best I can make it.

 

[skersfan]

I have been using them since 1986 or close to that, never broke one and still have quite a few from that time frame on the road. I will do everything in my power to see if it can be broken off road, by trying every obstacle I think is possible with the trailer. Nothing intentional to damage it, but just trails where people might pull the trailer. I am planning on an attempt at Black Bear in July. Sure I am going to need some help on the first two switch backs, but I think it can be done, even with a trailer this size. No guts no glory. lol

 

[Martyn]

Again, there is no need for a 3400 pound torsion axle on a expedtion trailer. Our max weight would be 2000 pounds is my guess. Mine is right there, I use a 2500 pound axle on mine, works perfectly. Some where along the line we have decided that 3500 pound axles are the right application. I understand the stronger bearings and all, but you can order those with the 2500 pound torsion axle. I think all of the problems people are having with them are related to over doing the axle weight. Most who use spring axles use the 3500 and down grade the springs/leafs. With the torsion axle you can order down to the weight you need. It is decided by the rubber in the center. If they are no ordered properly you will have problems as there really is no after modification.

Dexter offers the axle from 1900 to 3400, then 3500 to 4900, 5000 to 9900. You can chose any number in between and they custom make them for you to your requirements. The new 5 and 10 thousand pound axles offer a air bag, but do not offer if below as of yet.

You can order pretty much anything from disc I have heard to parking brakes and any bolt pattern.

My guess is that AT ordered a 3500 pound axle, which would be the norm. I can just imagine how rough it would ride and bounce would be unbearable, with no way of correcting it other than overloading the trailer, which would be near impossible.

Torsion axles have to be ordered for specific weight and use. If you don't I can see how the problems would occur.

We used Dexter 3500 lb torsion axles, we did so to get the larger bearings which we consider essential for off road use, and then had the axle de-rated by Dexter to 2500 lbs to reduce the stiffness. Sorry to say it didn't help much.

 

[Woods]

I know that you guys offering opinions already know this, but for the guys that are just learning about trailer suspensions, dampening and geometry should be mentioned also. Shocks can be used with most any suspension and may have relieved some of the issues that guys are pointing out. For example, add shocks to leafs or torsion axles and they will behave very differently. The springs are only part of the equation.

- Springs (leafs, the rubber inside a torsion tube, torsion bars (different from rubber torsion axles) air bags, etc...) support weight, that's why properly choosing and loading springs is so important.
- Dampening (shock absorbers) control the motion of the springs and how the springs react to different terrain.
- Suspension geometry determines the motion of the axle as the suspension cycles. Torsion axles move back and up, as the springs compress. For the most part, leafed axles move up and down. Moving back and up will be better for deeper pot-holes and whoops and have less benefit for washboard.

All this given, if you don't want to figure all this stuff out on your own, I'd recommend buying a suspension from someone you trust.

 

[gabepari]

Leafed axles move in an arc as well, more of a "J" path. Primarily determined by the length and static angle of the shackles. You can also control the direction the axle moves. Shackles in rear, axle moves back... Shackles in front, axle moves forward...

Shocks on torsions don't help as much as one would think. The bouncing associated with torsions is more a derivative of tire flex (since most times the torsion is so stiff it barely moves) and as we know the shocks are not connected to the tire

You are right that geometry plays a HUGE roll in suspension design. That's why you can't just claim one is better than the other. Ever seen any of the 4-link threads on Pirate

And, yes, leaf sprung axles MUST be damped... They will be dampened upon water crossings

I know that you guys offering opinions already know this, but for the guys that are just learning about trailer suspensions, dampening and geometry should be mentioned also. Shocks can be used with most any suspension and may have relieved some of the issues that guys are pointing out. For example, add shocks to leafs or torsion axles and they will behave very differently. The springs are only part of the equation.

- Springs (leafs, the rubber inside a torsion tube, torsion bars (different from rubber torsion axles) air bags, etc...) support weight, that's why properly choosing and loading springs is so important.
- Dampening (shock absorbers) control the motion of the springs and how the springs react to different terrain.
- Suspension geometry determines the motion of the axle as the suspension cycles. Torsion axles move back and up, as the springs compress. For the most part, leafed axles move up and down. Moving back and up will be better for deeper pot-holes and whoops and have less benefit for washboard.

All this given, if you don't want to figure all this stuff out on your own, I'd recommend buying a suspension from someone you trust.

 

[rsbmg]

I'm no suspension expert but I would think shocks would only improve any suspension provided the basic suspension be it leafs, torsion axle, air bags, whatever is correct for the load its carrying. I believe Airstream which is a pretty well respected company as far as trailers are concerned uses torsion axles AND shocks, I can't help but think a company which has been building trailers for over 70 years has a pretty good formula for success? Again I'm just speaking from an outsider looking in.

 

[gabepari]

You're correct, but when the trailer is sub 1500 pounds, it's a different story.

I'm no suspension expert but I would think shocks would only improve any suspension provided the basic suspension be it leafs, torsion axle, air bags, whatever is correct for the load its carrying. I believe Airstream which is a pretty well respected company as far as trailers are concerned uses torsion axles AND shocks, I can't help but think a company which has been building trailers for over 70 years has a pretty good formula for success? Again I'm just speaking from an outsider looking in.

 

[rsbmg]

I don't follow you. Again I'm not a suspension expert. What is it about 1500 lbs. that makes things that applied at 1600 lbs. change?

 

[Martyn]

Unfortunately this discussing will never come to a conclusion. The only way for an individual to decide which suspension type works best for them is to run an identical trail with trailers fitted with all the different suspensions.

I learned a long time ago you can't sell a fridge to someone who uses a cooler. It's only when they run out of ice, their beer gets warm, and their friend with a fridge hands them a cold drink that a sale can be made. The same principal applies to suspension. You are never going to convince someone to buy a different suspension until they have experienced something better than what they already have.

 

[gabepari]

I don't follow you. Again I'm not a suspension expert. What is it about 1500 lbs. that makes things that applied at 1600 lbs. change?

First of all, an Airstream weighs a little more than 1600lb, no???

Next, I'm no communication expert, but I'm pretty sure I don't have the necessary skills on this here google-box to make this work.

So, if you are really interested in knowing the answer, and not just trolling... Gimme a call at the shop sometime and I'll walk you through it.