Recently Deleted Threads

[Scott Brady]

There are two issues here, and I believe the distinction to be quite clear.

#1: Discussions about guns and using them for sport, protection or hunting in the Sportsmans Forum= OK Since the forum's inception, we have always talked about guns, including carry protection, wingshooting, big game, etc. It is (mostly) legal to carry firearms in the US, particularly in the west. There is no political discussion here as there are current laws that permit this and it is simply a discussion about the guns you use and how you use them. If a member does not like the gun chatter, stay out of the sportsmans forum.

#2: Discussions about gun politics in any forum on ExPo= Not OK. We have had a no politics, no religion policy since 2005. This should be no surprise to anyone. There are times when a grey area exists, like discussing the political climate in another country someone is visiting, etc. Discussions about the current administration, pro or ant-gun laws (and proposed laws), etc. are all political in nature and not permitted. The reason for this is simple. Religion and politics creates a division between people that would otherwise enjoy chatting about trucks and travel. There are thousands of communities dedicated to political and religious topics - visit those.

I own and use firearms and have since my earliest memories. I use firearms for both protection and sport, both of which are currently legal where I live. There is no political position related to this as it is currently legal to do both!

Discussion about owning and using firearms is not political

Discussion regarding the RIGHT to own or use firearms is political

 

[1leglance]

I welcome any discussion that gets people to THINK about our society instead of sitting in front to the TV watching the latest crap.
Also getting people to learn about our Constitution, our rights & responsibilities as citizens and becoming active members of our political system in the USA is great.

In some countries you pay a fine if you don't vote, I wish we had that in the USA.

I like guns, I own guns, I give guns as gifts to my kids and I make sure they are aware of the writings of our Founding Fathers regarding an armed populace. It is pretty clear.

 

[Scott Brady]

Another quick note: I have undeleted the threads and left them as closed. That was my mistake as I asked Ray to "delete" instead of "close". I really don't like the idea of deleting threads unless they are spam, etc.

Having said that, members that continue to violate long-standing rules of the forum may be subject to a temporary ban. These rules have been around for nearly a decade and it doesn't take a rocket-scientist to figure them out. I apologize if you don't like the rules, but these are the rules we felt most appropriate to the community and they are rules shared by nearly every other vehicle-based community on the web.

 

[Scott B.]

...
Discussion about owning and using firearms is not political

Discussion regarding the RIGHT to own or use firearms is political

I respectfully disagree.

A RIGHT is not political. The idea to change said RIGHT is political, not the RIGHT itself.

EDIT: I just re-read what you wrote, and we are saying the same thing. No disagreement necessary.

 

[2025 deleted member]

I am glad you put those threads back up so I could read up on what I missed and see what the big stink was. I guess it seemed like no big deal to me.

 

[dblosch]

There are two issues here, and I believe the distinction to be quite clear.

#2: Discussions about gun politics in any forum on ExPo= Not OK. We have had a no politics, no religion policy since 2005. This should be no surprise to anyone. There are times when a grey area exists, like discussing the political climate in another country someone is visiting, etc. Discussions about the current administration, pro or ant-gun laws (and proposed laws), etc. are all political in nature and not permitted. The reason for this is simple. Religion and politics creates a division between people that would otherwise enjoy chatting about trucks and travel. There are thousands of communities dedicated to political and religious topics - visit those.


Discussion about owning and using firearms is not political

Discussion regarding the RIGHT to own or use firearms is political

Scott,

Thank you for stepping in here. I agree with you about basically everything you said. However, there are some things you didn't say.

I referenced the "Newtown" thread in an earlier post. That thread, while mainly an outpouring of hope and love for the families affected by that tragic event, includes political firearms discussion, along with religious references, and a personal attack or two. By the definitions relied upon by the moderators here, yourself included, that thread should be closed down. It hasn't been, and doubt you could find anyone who truly believes it should be. The fact that it breaks the rules, but is not in any danger of being shut down, is indicative of the double standard I keep mentioning. The are undoubtedly many other threads on ExPo that have broken the same rules, but have been exempted from "moderation." I pick that one because it is a pointed example of the problem are hand. There is in fact a "picking and choosing" of threads to keep/delete/close, and the "rules are rules" defense falls short when the rules aren't applied across the board.

If our moderators are going to step in with any thread that breaks the letter of the law, OK.

OR

If the moderators are going to take the civil behavior of the posters in a given thread into account when considering stepping in, OK.

But

As long as the moderators attempt to do both, the problems we face here will persist.


Please take my words with the all the respect intended. I enjoy ExPo just as much as the next guy, and I hope to continue to be able to.

 

[Scott Brady]

The fact that it breaks the rules, but is not in any danger of being shut down, is indicative of the double standard I keep mentioning. The are undoubtedly many other threads on ExPo that have broken the same rules, but have been exempted from "moderation."

Actually, the reason is far more benign. We just don't have the time to read every post in every thread in every forum. Some things slip through the cracks. Half of our team was out last week and this week- we have a small group.

 

[dblosch]

Actually, the reason is far more benign. We just don't have the time to read every post in every thread in every forum. Some things slip through the cracks. Half of our team was out last week and this week- we have a small group.

Please understand, I mean no disrespect. In fact, i'm a little bit starstruck to be on opposite ends of a keyboard from you.

But are we really to believe that the Newtown thread, and others like it, haven't been deleted because they fell through the cracks? If that's the case, now that you're aware of it, should we expect it to be closed/deleted next week when the team is back to 100%?

I hope not.

 

[Scott Brady]

But are we really to believe that the Newtown thread, and others like it, haven't been deleted because they fell through the cracks? If that's the case, now that you're aware of it, should we expect it to be closed/deleted next week when the team is back to 100%?

It is up to you to believe it or not, but we are a busy team. I only found out about this thread because of an email.

It is just about available time. We attempt to moderate the best we can, but often fall (very) short of optimal/expectations.

In fact, i'm a little bit starstruck to be on opposite ends of a keyboard from you.

I can promise you that I am not that cool, just very lucky, though I appreciate the sentiment.

 

[Scott Brady]

But are we really to believe that the Newtown thread, and others like it, haven't been deleted because they fell through the cracks?

I just looked, and we closed the Newtown thread on 12/17/2012

If there are other threads we missed, I would appreciate the help with identifying them.

 

[dblosch]

I just looked, and we closed the Newtown thread on 12/17/2012

I stand corrected! Thanks for taking the time.

 

[RangeBrover]

Discussion about owning and using firearms is not political

Discussion regarding the RIGHT to own or use firearms is political

I think this about sums it up.

 

[haven]

"...the Newtown thread, and others like it, haven't been deleted because they fell through the cracks?"

If you think a post, or an entire thread, needs some sort of attention from the mods, then please report it. Click on the little black triangle in the lower left corner of the post. Thanks.

 

[Chili]

While I did not see the threads in question, I tend to agree with the Mods / Admins decision to not allow them. I am on several other forums that tend to go WAY off topic and there are a ton of threads that degenerate quickly once politics and / or religion are brought up. I also agree that there are numerous forums out there that espouse these discussions, and are far better places to engage in those topics.

Hopefully this is not against the rules, if so feel free to edit, but for those that wish to engage in the firearms debate or for those out of the country that just want to learn more about the American perspective on the topic, check out opencarry.org.

 

[Dave Bennett]

We have discussed in the past having perhaps a Fireside section that would be more open to these kind of discussions, but also more exclusive. For instance, members would have to have a certain numbers of posts before being allowed to that section. Maybe that is something we can discuss again.

I think this is a great idea. I would even pay for such an area to discuss the real world without a filter other than manners. Yes, there are other sites to discuss ____ subjects, but most of us prefer the company here.

As travellers we seek to understand cultures and traditions beyond our own yet when it comes to the cultures that developed here in the States it seems to be overlooked or scorned for some reason.

So true. We've built quite a community of like minded folks here, is it possible we could make a sub-forum where we could speak about what's REALLY going on in our world without fear of being banned or deleted? Maybe an un-moderated area? Would this not lead to more understanding?

We could call it "The Jungle" or "Brady's Garage" or "Christian's Cantina" or something