cruiseroutfit
Supporting Sponsor: Cruiser Outfitters
Good point, I'm not the original poster, so I guess it dodged me that the info was missing. FWIW all the important geographic information is included in the petition link.
Paria Closure Protest Ride 5/9/09
- Thread starter U4WDA
- Start date
Good point, I'm not the original poster, so I guess it dodged me that the info was missing. FWIW all the important geographic information is included in the petition link.
off-roader
Expedition Leader
I've done similar high speed 'splash' runs but only at an OHV park and only in their 'built' mud pits which are filled via tanker truck regularly. I otherwise make a concerted effort to 'tread lightly' off road.:smiley_drive:
cruiseroutfit
Supporting Sponsor: Cruiser Outfitters
They are no longer a designated trail, at one time they were (by the BLM pre Monument) and hence is the crux of the debate, the counties consider it an establish ROW long before the creation of the Monument by Bill Clinton from across the state line. The trail does cross the river countless times but also clearly meanders a crossed its banks.
If there are any other specifics you would like to know.... ask. We can't answer questions we don't hear
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cruiseroutfit
Supporting Sponsor: Cruiser Outfitters
I can definitely agree on that point. I've worked with the BLM on many land access projects and value the relationship I have with our local office. Issues like this are hard to tip-toe around without offending one side or the other. I think the actual on the ground BLM reps in this area would likely be in support of leaving the route open, I've called and talked to them about the route in the past (before our 2006 trip for example) and I gathered that it was stressing them out as much as the next.
Up until the creation of the monument it was open to travel, dating back nearly 100 years according to Kanab locals. I can't verify that, but I can verify its been open since the late 80's when folks I know started traveling it. Digital cameras, online blogs and trip report sites have really change the face of documentation over the past few years, this is a time where I wish we had them earlier.
FWIW from ~99
This is a major issue. Much of Southern Utah's public lands were "open cross-country travel" or "limited to existing routes" up until the recent RMP changes. Many find it astonishing to thing it was not only doable, but completely legal to push a trail anywhere you wanted in these areas. Obviously not the case of this trail after the monument, but before the monument the area and the wash were open to cross-country travel. I think a major reason no route is shown on common newer maps is the face that the trail follows the meandering river and in the dry times of the year it was in the river bed the entire time. There are trail segments on the sides of the wash, but its fair to say that 1/2 of the trail is in the wash bottom proper. Again up until the monument, the BLM did consider the route open, thus the county wasn't putting much effort into trying to legitimize it as nobody figured it would be lost.
The issue is access. One by one historically accessed routes are being closed to motorized and mechanized travel. These are roads the counties maintain as their own under RS2477 (meaning pre-76' trails). Not only are they important as transportation routes and recreation access points, but to tourism and their local economies too. The Paria River Trail has been a major draw for many to the area, while the area isn't going to fall flat on its face without it, one by one things will change. Again this is happening all over Southern Utah, Devils Racetrack, Eva Connover, Eagle Canyon, Canaan Mountain, all historic & existing routes with a proven history, being closed by federal level designation despite the well wishes of residents and counties.
sinuhexavier
Explorer
FWIW from ~99
There is a similar sign on the northern end at the entrance to Sheep Creek. If I remember correctly it reads "Sheep Creek 4X4"
cruiseroutfit
Supporting Sponsor: Cruiser Outfitters
Typical Trib rhetoric. I was not able to attend but from everything I gather it was a huge sucsess. The BLM and Sherrif were there to greet all the enthusiasts as they drove by.
Remember the BLM's own internal documents showed they were not closing this route, rather asking for "voluntary" compliance by users. So in the eyes of many (most) this route was never and should never have been closed. I've been personally told by the BLM in the recent years that the route is OPEN and since that time no new designations nor motorized travel plans have been performed.
Its kinda hard to compare the actions of Dechristopher, acting on his own or possible on behalf of cohorts, versus the actions of the state of Utah many Utah counties, which are all involved in lawsuits, road litigation and trail disputs with the federal government. Is it civil disobedience when your working with your local and state officials? A hard call no doubt.
It will be interesting to see what comes of this. Supposedly their was quite the excitment at the event when one of the elected officials refused to do an interview with the Trib reporter.
paulj
Expedition Leader
That word 'maintain' is fast taking on new connotations. At one time, to maintain a road meant keeping it drivable by the intended users. If the users are well equipped 4x4s, then virtually no maintenance by the county is required. But if maintenance standards include environmental concerns like sedimentation of streams, contamination by oils, effects on wildlife, then the county has greater responsibility.
Supporting documents for the Central Water district's action on the Rubicon point out that the California DOT has to file environmental compliance plans with them. Private and public construction projects have to comply with numerous erosion control regulations. The Forest Service has to go through extensive environmental hoops to rebuild roads washed out by winter storms in the Washington Cascades.
I suspect that the only around these regulations is to carve out a legal exception for historic 4x4 trails.
kellymoe
Expedition Leader
Seems to have caused quite a stir in other circles. This is from a a climbing forum I frequent.
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.html?topic_id=857258
I have never been to the Paria River area but it seems there could have been a more productive form of protest than making the 4x4 community look juvenile. Is it really in the best interest of the 4x4 community to drive down the center of a waterway to prove a point?
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.html?topic_id=857258
I have never been to the Paria River area but it seems there could have been a more productive form of protest than making the 4x4 community look juvenile. Is it really in the best interest of the 4x4 community to drive down the center of a waterway to prove a point?
motoexplorer
New member
I'd say it caused quite a stir in that climbing forum. Pretty strong comments in there, yet it would appear most of them have no detailed knowledge of the matter at all.
"Why those <insert group you hate here> are just a bunch of <place profanity here> <insert derogatory terms here> <follow up with pithy comment here>"
I don't understand why people feel compelled to do that.
"Why those <insert group you hate here> are just a bunch of <place profanity here> <insert derogatory terms here> <follow up with pithy comment here>"
I don't understand why people feel compelled to do that.
sinuhexavier
Explorer
It sounds like it is the ORV/ATV types that are the problem, not so much us cross country travelers...
Streakerfreak
Jan-Kee
Yes, but unfortunately we tend to get grouped in with the perceived notion of what all off-roaders are. This is where these kinds of things fail IMO. One side views everyone on one side as an extremist, while the other side lumps everyone else into the other extreme.
All this just seems like very bad PR. I don't see how any good could come of it.
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cruiseroutfit
Supporting Sponsor: Cruiser Outfitters
Extremely true. I think there is indeed a lot of middle ground that the two sides could work together on if we could just find a way to eliminate the fringe of both sides. For example I am for 90% of the Wilderness bill that has been proposed for years here in Utah and I think many vehicle travelers would agree, but its finding the medium to work out these "compromises" that has proven down right impossible.
paulj
Expedition Leader
Here's a description of the event, as seen by one of the anti-protest picnickers. It delves into the background of the event.
http://www.wildlandscpr.org/blog/report-paria-river-protests
http://www.wildlandscpr.org/blog/report-paria-river-protests
sinuhexavier
Explorer
A little note on the Protest ride and what the BLM is doing about it...
http://www.theadventurelife.org/2009/05/utah-wilderness-violators-turned-over-to-us-attorney/
http://www.theadventurelife.org/2009/05/utah-wilderness-violators-turned-over-to-us-attorney/
