H1N1 Vaccine

[RMP&O]

I guess I'm missing something here. Smoking and drinking are conscious choices. Are you saying that one can simply "choose" not to get influenza? Seems to me that plenty of clean living people still get the flu every year.

And what exactly, should "those in charge" do about people drinking and smoking?

I am not always atriculate...

I guess I am saying and do feel that how you live your life has a big effect on if you get sick or not. So in a way I guess that yeah we do chose to some extent to get sick or not. Key words there are "to some extent." A large majority of adults get sick at work (office) or when their kids bring it home. So if we practiced a bit better hygine in these enviroments IMHO there would be much less flu going around. Also if people stayed home when they were sick instead of going to work or school or the grocery store less viruses would get spread around. True that is not completely possible or realistic but how often do you see a sick person in an airport or in the grocery store? Sneazing, coughing and wiping snot on their hands is how viruses like the flu get spread. By going out in public they are just spreading it around.....

You are right bad habits are personal choice, including eating at McD's everyday. I don't know what those in charge should do...I am just not very happy with what they are doing. I don't feel cigs & booz should be illegal but come on these things kill more people than just about anything else. It just seems a bit silly to me how worried people get about something like the Swine flu when there are much more serious health probs in our society, even worse in poorer countries. It also seems to me that if we focused on the serious problems more devoting more resources to those problems it would help people more than worrying about a flu virus that really isn't all that serious.

 

[superpowerdave]

We haven't been given the choice to get the shot yet, and to me that's pretty stark. I'm a military guy, and the government normally makes sure the guys on the front line get what they feel the country needs before the rest of the country ... and they make it mandatory.

The base hospital told me there were no plans to innoculate the active duty members unless they requested it.

On one hand I agree that the media hyped this up something fierce. On the other hand, there is a kernel of truth buried deep in all that garbage they feed us on the nightly news in my opinion. All those scary reports about the vaccinations doing terrible things to people can't all be fiction.

Sure, there is risk with every vaccination, but saying that it's been tested as long and in as many people as the standard flu shot is preposterous. The test bed on the standard flu shot is decades old, while swine flue broke out while I was in Iraq this last time ... less than a year ago.

 

[Superu]

Sure, there is risk with every vaccination, but saying that it's been tested as long and in as many people as the standard flu shot is preposterous. The test bed on the standard flu shot is decades old, while swine flue broke out while I was in Iraq this last time ... less than a year ago.

With all due respect, the test bed of which you speak is the same testbed used for the Novel H1N1 vaccine. Although, some might argue that it's better than the average. The biggest differences from the production and testing of the standard seasonal flu vaccine (which itself differs in composition from year to year) are three-fold.

1. The Novel H1N1 virus grows a bit more slowly than the average flu virus we've seen in recent years so supply has been constrained.
2. Instead of only one major US medical center working on the efficacy and safety testing as is usually the case, this year all 8 sanctioned facilities are involved which actually ends up giving you a larger statistical sample in a shorter amount of time than standard trials.
3. Processing of FDA paperwork (electronic filings actually) has been prioritized and accelerated. Not reduced or eliminated.

Those are the facts, not the hype, from someone who works directly in the biotech/pharma industry and is very familiar with these processes.

That said, I'm not here to convince anyone what to do about their personal health decisions, just concerned that the hype is obscuring the facts about this situation. The OP asked for feedback from the forum and this is mine. Hope it's helpful to someone. :ylsmoke:

 

[Superu]

You are right bad habits are personal choice, including eating at McD's everyday. I don't know what those in charge should do...I am just not very happy with what they are doing. I don't feel cigs & booz should be illegal but come on these things kill more people than just about anything else. It just seems a bit silly to me how worried people get about something like the Swine flu when there are much more serious health probs in our society, even worse in poorer countries. It also seems to me that if we focused on the serious problems more devoting more resources to those problems it would help people more than worrying about a flu virus that really isn't all that serious.

I happen to agree with some of what you've said here about attention to serious health problems here and in the developing nations.

Bjorn Lomborg's book Cool It: The Skeptical Environmentalist's Guide to Global Warming comes to mind. In it he explains that there are many ways we could better be spending money and resources to improve conditions for people globally than those that are in the news most frequently and therefore become most popular.

In the case of the H1N1 vaccine, I personally feel it is of value and worthwhile. Doesn't negate my feeling that other areas need attention, just that given the widespread nature of this virus, there is value in taking measures to reduce its impact. :ylsmoke:

 

[stevenmd]

I say get the vaccination if available. And be prepared for a mutation...not necessarily an H1N1 mutation but any number of possible mutations.

Correct. They are already getting prepared for a combination of the H5N and the H1N1.

After speaking with several of our staff physicians for a few hours, specifically about the history of vaccines and how this current batch is produced, I feel absolutely comfortable with modern production of vaccines.

I will be getting the H1N1 shot tomorrow. It is being offered to all our staff. I noticed the only ones not getting the shot are those who have, well, without trying to be stereotypical here, beliefs is such things like Santeria, etc.

From what I have been hearing on the news, these shots are now like gold. It seems every place is out of them or did not receive them. I am glad I work in a high risk area and have the opportunity to receive the shot.

Thanks for all the input everyone and I wish everyone a healthy winter!

 

[DaveInDenver]

I don't get flu shots of any kind.

Same here, I have always skipped getting flu shots. But for a number of years now I have been taking vitamin D3 (a higher dose in the winter particularly, about 4000 IU spread over the day) and a multi-vitamin that includes selenium and vitamin E. It's not that I'm just some nut, this has been my plan for most of my adult life with my doctor's advice. It you look at the research it seems to show that people who otherwise should be fine (i.e. young and middle age healthy adults) contract the flu often get more sick than they should because of nutritional deficiency. A big reason you get sick more in the winter is the lack of sunlight and the decrease in vitamin D produced by your body. Vitamin D is crucial to your immune system's efficiency and most people are badly deficient from unhealthy diets. There is also evidence that vitamin D deficiency is linked with an increase in cancer rates, too. It's a combination of being inside more now and wide use of sunblock, the UV inhibitors make natural vitamin D production decrease in your skin.

I should make the point that my plan is pretty much in full agreement with my doctor, who recommends helping your body do what it does naturally rather than pimping drugs. He's not some new age hippie doctor either, but grew up on a farm in Iowa and been practicing for 35 years now. We do drugs for some things when it seems like the right choice, so it's not a complete aversion to it but rather trying to minimize it. Some of his other patients just want the shot, no second thought. But he's fine to work with others who prefer not to resort to a drug for everything.

So does all this make me a Santeria believer? If so, alright. But how is that any different than everyone believing that just getting a shot each winter can make up for 364 days of eating like crap and not exercising? Is that not a blind faith, too?

 

[stevenmd]

I'm not sure how vitamin D can protect you from a viral infection, specifically H1N1. Vitamin D does not have the power to "crack open the envelope" of a virus, thus causing it to die. Vitamin D is not specifically formulated to attack the proteins in the DNA strand of a virus.

I'm sure one's health comes into play at some point in regards to whether or not you contract a virus; however, I would think a predisposition to exposure would be more a determination of contraction.

Of course, I will also be offering a sacrifice to (insert deity here) just in case the H1N1 shot in ineffective.:elkgrin:

 

[DurangoSteve]

Goat sacrifices are especially effective at keeping nasty viruses at bay. Or so I've been told...:ylsmoke:

I'm not sure how vitamin D can protect you from a viral infection, specifically H1N1. Vitamin D does not have the power to "crack open the envelope" of a virus, thus causing it to die. Vitamin D is not specifically formulated to attack the proteins in the DNA strand of a virus.

I'm sure one's health comes into play at some point in regards to whether or not you contract a virus; however, I would think a predisposition to exposure would be more a determination of contraction.

Of course, I will also be offering a sacrifice to (insert deity here) just in case the H1N1 shot in ineffective.:elkgrin:

 

[DaveInDenver]

I'm not a doctor, but his explanation was that vitamin D deficiency has correlation to how your immune system regulates itself. It's not preventing you from getting the flu but if you do come down with flu the illness is shorter and less virulent. Supposedly your body overproduces inflammatory cytokines when vitamin D deficient and pneumonia or epithelial reaction are generally why you get very sick or die from flu.

It's also supposedly why we get sicker in the winter, since less sun exposure makes you more susceptible to this. Also we tend to be more dehydrated in the winter which concentrates viruses and keeps them from being expelled. Like I say, I don't fault anyone for getting a flu shot but I don't feel it's the right thing for me and I didn't just come to this conclusion. I have not taken a flu shot in 15 years and the last time I got one I got very sick from it, which is why I started looking into it.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19172691

Moro JR, Iwata M, von Andriano UH.

Gastrointestinal Unit, Massachusetts General Hospital, Harvard Medical School, Boston, Massachusetts 02114, USA. j_rodrigo_mora@harvard.hms.edu

Vitamins are essential constituents of our diet that have long been known to influence the immune system. Vitamins A and D have received particular attention in recent years as these vitamins have been shown to have an unexpected and crucial effect on the immune response. We present and discuss our current understanding of the essential roles of vitamins in modulating a broad range of immune processes, such as lymphocyte activation and proliferation, T-helper-cell differentiation, tissue-specific lymphocyte homing, the production of specific antibody isotypes and regulation of the immune response. Finally, we discuss the clinical potential of vitamin A and D metabolites for modulating tissue-specific immune responses and for preventing and/or treating inflammation and autoimmunity.

 

[H2O_Doc]

Y'all do know that vaccines USE our "natural" defense system to protect us, right? People are talking like its some sort of unnatural process. Maybe youre not getting exposed from my 4 year old's boogers, but its the same process.

 

[Root Moose]

Now, now - don't start talking sense - people like their plots that involve witchcraft.

 

[DaveInDenver]

Y'all do know that vaccines USE our "natural" defense system to protect us, right? People are talking like its some sort of unnatural process. Maybe youre not getting exposed from my 4 year old's boogers, but its the same process.

So do you feel that MF-59, i.e. ingested squalene, is a naturally occurring process? What about a dose of Thimerosal every year? Is that natural? What about some of the other things in flu shots, disodium-phosphate, Triton X-100, Tween 80, Trometamol? What the heck is all this stuff?

 

[H2O_Doc]

No, but that want at all my point and eatin' cheetos aint exactly natural either.

Focus : )

 

[DaveInDenver]

Now, now - don't start talking sense - people like their plots that involve witchcraft.

I assume that is directed at me, but I'm not the one taking the witch's brew in the arm every year. What's so awful about my approach? I'm not saying getting the flu is all peaches and cream, but I also think annual injections of mercury and aluminum don't come without risks, too.

No, but that want at all my point and eatin' cheetos aint exactly natural either.

Focus : )

Part of the reason I don't eat Cheetos... We try to avoid junk food in general, we make our own jam, bake our own bread. We ain't perfect granola heads but we try. I do drink store bought beer and lots of it.

 

[stevenmd]

Y'all do know that vaccines USE our "natural" defense system to protect us, right? People are talking like its some sort of unnatural process. Maybe youre not getting exposed from my 4 year old's boogers, but its the same process.

Correct. The vaccines cause our body to manufacture the anti-bodies that fight the specific disease. With the H1N1 vaccine, it causes our body to manufacture the anti-body to the protein that makes up the protective envelope of the H1N1 virus. If we contract H1N1, then the anti-bodies destroy the protective shell of the virus, thus causing the virus to die. This of course, is a very simplistic explanation.