Chinese Air Locker

[BIGdaddy]

I would strongly suggest to stay away Chinese made offroad/camping equipment. I'm still killing myself In a butt for buying their Roof top tent and an awning... I haven't even used it ONCE many things have failed already. Zipper on the RTT cover is not working, awning poles broke right of.. Ugh, I can go on and on. Sorry for a rant...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Your Iphone is made in china, fyi.

Might want to stay away from that too, sir.

(mostly kidding, but I do find it ironic that you posted via iphone...)

 

[BIGdaddy]

There are two separate arguments going on here...

1)Is the knock off a viable part from a suitability point of view
2)Is the knock off a viable part from an ethical point of view

To address point 1, ARBs test shows that system failure for the knock off was within 7% of that of the original part. assuming manufacturing tolerances etc etc etc this seems like an acceptable variance. Whether your axle or your diff fails makes little difference trailside if you do not have the correct tools, parts or know how to do a jua kali fix. It could also be argued that the knock off may have inferior wear and tear, longevity or usability. All these points may be true, however there is only one piece of empirical evidence in these areas, that is that ARB chose not to address them, which would appear to indicate that the greatest area of weakness of the knock off vice their product was strength of the components.

As to the ethics of the issue. The engineering of the part has clearly been stolen. This must however be weighed against ARBs pricing structure. Assuming that the engineering work has been done for a given design, and that those costs have been defrayed, marginal cost for producing an additional cost would come down to variable costs for that particular unit (material, supplies, manpower et al)... these are relatively tiny. The only other costs involved are advertising customer support and the like. As with any industry, brand recognition pays a large part in product selection, and allows a company to charge massive premiums. It is my contention that this may be why ARB's price structure is so high; it is not that they have a vastly superior product, but that they have the perception of a superior product. Unfortunately perception only goes so far, and attempting to maintain a premium price structure in the face of cheaper, functionally equal rivalry is futile and best and usury at worst. It comes down to the individual consumer to decide which is worse... to let a rival steal intellectual property or to allow a company to charge monopoly prices...

As to the argument of not buying Chinese; most I have talked to appear to be missing the point. In order to strengthen the domestic economy the answer is "Buy Local" not "Do Not Buy Chinese"... sending money to Australia does as much damage to the US economy as sending it to China. In this case it actually does more, as on a per item basis one must spend several times as much money. To put it another way, the problem is not that money is going into a foreign economy, but that it is coming out of a local one... Sending $100 to china has about a $150 long term effect on the US economy, sending $100 to Australia does exactly the same thing. What we are talking about here though is sending 400 to china vs 1100 to Australia, and the second is far more damaging.

excellent articulation of your point, sir. thanks!

 

[p71]

excellent articulation of your point, sir. thanks!

Thanks. You can specifically blame the excellent faculty at the McMurry School of Business. (Go Indians!)

 

[trump]

It is very interesting how you feel you have to attack or make fun of my beliefs in retaliation for the comments I make. Mind you, I am used to it but it always makes me chuckle at the insecurity of the statements. Does you arguement not have enough merit to stand on its own without this "attack".

Attack your beliefs? I origanally questioned the morality of everyone that would be willing to buy (what many) would consider to be stolen property. Remember you then chimed in labeling me "stupid" for doing that. So who is insecure here? It obvious that you can't see this as a problem or don't care.

 

[Azlugz]

Actually, it stated the the action was stupid, not the individual, but it is still semantics, I should have said rediculous or some such word

 

[Jeep]

As a manufacturer I have some input you might want to consider.

2 years ago we sent our vendors (we buy a lot of steel) a letter stating no chinese materials will be accepted. We employ design technologists, engineers, fabricators, welders, equipment technicians and such. We used CNC tubing benders, press brakes and othe such tools which will give you a very fast indication of material deffects. We manufacture products with a very high liability factor so we conduct SAE and ISO tests on a regular basis. We use a lot of DOM tubing which is ISO registered and controlled with batch and heat numbers recorded right on the tubing and we discovered crystalizing and "shrinking" in our bending equipment, we only get .005" of tubing diameter variance but with the chinese material we experienced up to .227" tubing diameter variance which is very visible and very structurally compromising. We also get surface cracking and flat spotting that we also get with steel plate that comes from china. What this boils down to is a failure to adhere to the ISO policy that these foreign manufacturers advertise which is not acceptable to us. It is due dilligence on our part to not buy raw materials that do not adhere to a policy that we stand by, which in our case could have catastrophic results. So in a nutshell you are buying a product made with substandard materials, poor machining backed by false advertising. It's your choice, a cheap product isn't that cheap when you have buy it twice or replace it later.

 

[Deleted member 12023]

I am not trying to ruffle feathers, but I think this thread is funny....

Here we have a group of Americans arguing that it is immoral to support buying the Chinese product, but should instead buy the Australian product. Many of whom are driving Japanese vehicles.

What you should do is buy a OX locker and put it in a Domestic vehicle stamped "manufactured in USA".

But in all seriousness, do what works for your budget. If the Chinese locker will keep you traveling longer by saving more money for fuel, then buy it.

 

[trump]

I am not trying to ruffle feathers, but I think this thread is funny....

Here we have a group of Americans arguing that it is immoral to support buying the Chinese product, but should instead buy the Australian product. Many of whom are driving Japanese vehicles.

What you should do is buy a OX locker and put it in a Domestic vehicle stamped "manufactured in USA".

But in all seriousness, do what works for your budget. If the Chinese locker will keep you traveling longer by saving more money for fuel, then buy it.

No feathers ruffled, as you've missed the argument completely. Has nothing to do with it being made in China.

 

[Deleted member 12023]

Good. However if you read carefully there is more than one argument going on in this thread. But it is none of my business anyway. :ylsmoke:

 

[Wyowanderer]

There are two separate arguments going on here...
As to the argument of not buying Chinese; most I have talked to appear to be missing the point. In order to strengthen the domestic economy the answer is "Buy Local" not "Do Not Buy Chinese"... sending money to Australia does as much damage to the US economy as sending it to China. In this case it actually does more, as on a per item basis one must spend several times as much money. To put it another way, the problem is not that money is going into a foreign economy, but that it is coming out of a local one... Sending $100 to china has about a $150 long term effect on the US economy, sending $100 to Australia does exactly the same thing. What we are talking about here though is sending 400 to china vs 1100 to Australia, and the second is far more damaging.

I'll make one point. It's not really related to yours, though.
If you buy an Australian product, you support a country with a democratic government whose citizens have a modicum of freedom.
If you buy Chinese products, you support a communist government that has an atrocious human rights record.

Pretty easy choice, personally.

 

[Azlugz]

I'll make one point. It's not really related to yours, though.
If you buy an Australian product, you support a country with a democratic government whose citizens have a modicum of freedom.
If you buy Chinese products, you support a communist government that has an atrocious human rights record.

Pretty easy choice, personally.

So, how about all the fancy electronic gadgets that you likely have in your home, kitchen items and things in your garage that if they are not made in China, at least have parts made in China........Pretty easy choice??

 

[Wyowanderer]

So, how about all the fancy electronic gadgets that you likely have in your home, kitchen items and things in your garage that if they are not made in China, at least have parts made in China........Pretty easy choice??

Given a choice, I choose a non totalitarian government for the procurement of my my stuff. Naturally, I can't always do it, since some items aren't available to me, but I often go without rather than have something when it's made in the PRC.
Going without isn't as hard as we've been led to believe......

 

[rezdiver]

flip the keyboard you are typing on over and tell me where it is made.

you choose a non totalitarian government yet your democratic government contracts and procures stuff out of china every day. its very very hard to go without something made in the PRC, walk around your house and look at all the tags and come back with a report.

I say go with the locker and hope it works out.

Given a choice, I choose a non totalitarian government for the procurement of my my stuff. Naturally, I can't always do it, since some items aren't available to me, but I often go without rather than have something when it's made in the PRC.
Going without isn't as hard as we've been led to believe......

 

[Wyowanderer]

flip the keyboard you are typing on over and tell me where it is made.

you choose a non totalitarian government yet your democratic government contracts and procures stuff out of china every day. its very very hard to go without something made in the PRC, walk around your house and look at all the tags and come back with a report.

I say go with the locker and hope it works out.

Why does this need to turn into a pissing match?
Evidently, you missed the part where I said " I can't always do it, since some items aren't available to me".

But I'm pretty aware of the country of origin of the stuff I buy, so I don't need to "walk around your house and look at all the tags and come back with a report". If I CAN buy better, I do, and the contents of my household reflect that choice. If you choose to buy a locker from the PRC, no one will stop you, nor should they.

Can we play nice now?:sombrero:

 

[xtatik]

Here we have a group of Americans arguing that it is immoral to support buying the Chinese product, but should instead buy the Australian product. Many of whom are driving Japanese vehicles.

This may be true, but it's doubtful the Chinese company will have any manufacturing concerns in the U.S. The Japanese automakers are invested here and are creating a decent number of manufacturing jobs in the U.S.
I don't own anything from ARB, and I don't know if they have any manufacturing concerns here in the States. If they do, I'll buy from them....If they don't, I won't. Conditions being what they are...as best I can, my decisions are weighed by whether or not there is a competing product of domestic manufacture. Countries build wealth by building THINGS, and we're slowly being eclipsed.