Air conditioner alternatives

[adam88]

That's the thought behind my suggestion for the "doghouse" ac units.

Lots of teardrop owners going that way.

They are little more than a standard window mount unit, but are designed to use included ducting, and be operable 100% outside the cabin

http://www.climaterightair.com/climateright-5000-btu-a-c-heater.html

The problem is inefficiency of those units. The EER on that looks very low, like 7 or 8. It's about 25-30% less efficient than a window mounted unit. 700w for 5000btu is a lot. Pllus there's going to be cooling loss from the hoses etc. Finally, there's no where to put it. The photo you posted is great, it has a little spot on a trailer for it, but campers don't have a spot like that and even trailers most of the time that spot is used up (propane tanks etc). Oh and I forgot its 3x the price.

Window mount seems better in every way. Even if cold air sinks, for the cost of efficiency you could buy a 6000 btu unit which would still be more efficient than the 5000btu unit and the extra 1000 btu would make up for it being mounted lower

 

[andytruck]

thanks,
my dream AC unit would be to take a car AC and power it with a small 4 cycle engine and run ductwork to the cabin. Insulate the ductwork though. In my old RV the vehicle AC was enough to keep the cabin cool even on hot days while driving, and that is taking in hot outside air and cooling it, not recirculating anything, just letting the air exhaust through the cracks.
I would be happy using an electric motor and running a generator to power it too.
Have the core mounted to flexible freon hoses and just insert it into the cabin instead of the whole unit.

 

[IdaSHO]

idaSHO, I was seriously considering using one of those doghouse units before I saw the window mount method. They are not a bad choice, but I did have some reservations:

Having to set it up and tear it down each time (but, you could also use it in other campers / places, so maybe a positive thing?)
Whether it would run on my little genny (I really love the little thing. 28lbs and so small. I don't have room for a 2k one.)
Expensive. You can buy 3 window units for what one of those costs.

There was one guy who modified a window unit to work pretty much the same way - but there was a whole lot of tinkering involved. In the end, the window unit was easier to deal with for me.

I hear you about overall ease. No surprise people seem to jump at the window mounts for just that reason.


There are many ways to set up one of these doghouse units. Think outside the box and you cold find some interesting possibilities.

There are many models available in the doghouse units, even mini-splits would would be even better.

So the options for a small genny to run them is there, just have to find the right unit, and verify it has a soft start.

With a soft start compressor the possibilities open up tremendously. Im not aware of any of your average 5k window units having a soft start.



Cost is a factor. Although I know more about those cheap 5k window mount units that most.
From a MFG and wholesale side, I know the vast majority of them to be garbage, and the actual EER of them is bogus.

Looking at methods of construction and performance data Id have to assume the doghouse units,
and especially the small mini-splits are MILES ahead of the typical 5k window unit with regards to quality.

Simply a buy it once, or buy it twice (or 3 times :costumed-smiley-007 standing.

 

[subterran]

Actually idaSHO, the Fridgidaire unit mentioned in my build thread as 'not working' is the one that's installed in my toyhauler. One of the reasons I chose it was due to it having 'soft start'. In the long run it made no difference though, it still won't cycle more than once on genny power.

I was stymied for a while on the problem of getting a window unit to work with a 1k genny. The LG unit I bought, I purchased a boost capacitor and had the thing apart and was getting this (.) close to voiding the warranty, when I found a thread in a sailboat forum from a guy who had gotten one of the Arctic King units I mentioned to work reliably with his Honda 1k genny. So, I put the LG back together, gave it to my dad (who, due to an alignment of the planets, just had an ancient one go bad), and ordered one from Walmart. It actually works, too. (on a 1000 watt generator)

I also got really close to ordering a unit from climateright, but they only have them for a few weeks a year, and during my wait, I discovered other ways of doing it. I was going to mount the doghouse unit on a hitch hauler and drill some holes in my junk for the hoses. At this point, I'm glad I didn't!

As for mini-splits, those have some potential, but there aren't too many choices around yet (although I have stopped looking...lol). I did read somewhere about them becoming popular with the Aussies for RV use, but the units they were talking about were not available here. Plus, they are on 240, yes?

Anyway, this is all good information. And it's great to have it all in one place in this forum so that future researchers might find what they are looking for.

 

[IdaSHO]

One more time...

Nowhere did I say a window mount would not work.

Only commented on the placement, still, had no mention of not working.

And if you have it and are happy with it, thats great. but do not pretend that my original statement is at all false.

An AC unit mounted floor level is still the worse place you can put it, with regards to the AC unit.


Obviously there are limitations for many rigs, especially pop ups.

I only encourage those to realize the disadvantages of such a location for an AC, and think about alternatives.

That is, after-all, the title of the thread!


With that out of the way, it sounds like you have found a better unit if it is actually a soft start.

Maybe the industry is finally catching up. And thats great news.


Also, there is no shortage of options for mini splits in 100/120V

There are even some 12vDC units popping up these days.

Far from 240V only.

 

[subterran]

One more time...

Nowhere did I say a window mount would not work.

Only commented on the placement, still, had no mention of not working.

And if you have it and are happy with it, thats great. but do not pretend that my original statement is at all false.

An AC unit mounted floor level is still the worse place you can put it, with regards to the AC unit.

Oh, you misunderstand me. I am referring to my build thread wherein one of my adventures was figuring out which 5k window units would actually work with a 1k genny... there's a whole rigamarole on there about just that. When I said 'won't work', I am talking about my list of window units in my thread that won't work on a 1k genny.

This is to combat 'youtube heresay'. There are several videos on youtube showing guys running window AC units with small generators - but they don't show you how it only runs for the first cycle. Then the re-start amperage required on the second cycle tanks the little generator, and suddenly it's hot again.

Sorry - didn't mean to go off the reservation on you there. Yes - the higher you can mount the AC unit, the better it works. No argument there.

 

[IdaSHO]

Ah, copy that. No worries.



With your specific setup, have you measured actual amp draw at startup and running?

 

[andytruck]

Actually idaSHO, the Fridgidaire unit mentioned in my build thread as 'not working' is the one that's installed in my toyhauler. One of the reasons I chose it was due to it having 'soft start'. In the long run it made no difference though, it still won't cycle more than once on genny power.

I was stymied for a while on the problem of getting a window unit to work with a 1k genny. The LG unit I bought, I purchased a boost capacitor and had the thing apart and was getting this (.) close to voiding the warranty, when I found a thread in a sailboat forum from a guy who had gotten one of the Arctic King units I mentioned to work reliably with his Honda 1k genny. So, I put the LG back together, gave it to my dad (who, due to an alignment of the planets, just had an ancient one go bad), and ordered one from Walmart. It actually works, too. (on a 1000 watt generator)

I also got really close to ordering a unit from climateright, but they only have them for a few weeks a year, and during my wait, I discovered other ways of doing it. I was going to mount the doghouse unit on a hitch hauler and drill some holes in my junk for the hoses. At this point, I'm glad I didn't!

As for mini-splits, those have some potential, but there aren't too many choices around yet (although I have stopped looking...lol). I did read somewhere about them becoming popular with the Aussies for RV use, but the units they were talking about were not available here. Plus, they are on 240, yes?

Anyway, this is all good information. And it's great to have it all in one place in this forum so that future researchers might find what they are looking for.

So, would one of these http://www.walmart.com/ip/Arctic-Ki...Conditioner-with-Mechanical-Controls/24419373 have the soft start and run on a 1k gen?
Arctic King WWK-05CMN1-BI7 5,000-BTU Room Window Air Conditioner.

Seems like I just keep coming back to the window unit for price and easy to get.

 

[subterran]

Actually no. But those would be some useful numbers. We might have a kill-a-watt thing at work and give that a test over the summer. The little thing is pretty quiet too. I'll get back to ya'll on that.

 

[subterran]

Andytruck, yes, that's the one I have. It does work with my Yamaha 1000is generator. Soft start? I dunno. Yes, it works.

 

[IdaSHO]

The Arctic king line is pretty solid.

They are MFG by Midea.

Although Im not aware of any of their 5k window units having soft start.



In my last 9-5 position I was a buyer for a large retailer. Appliances was one of my many departments.

We went through quite MFGs of AC units over the years before finally settling with Midea/Arctic King

They are a reasonably reliable and affordable.

Return/defective rate was less than 10%

Other brands were north of 50% :Wow1:

 

[subterran]

IdaSHO, your amperage question has gotten me looking at HOW it works with my little Yamaha 1000is generator, and it's looking like the Arctic King WWK-05CMN1-BI7 is discontinued, and has no real amperage specifications I can find. Thanks for the Midea tip. They have some on their site that would appear to be the equivalent, or the updated model. The specifications they are quoting just don't add up. The smallest one I can find is this one: Midea (Arctic King) AKW+05CR4. It's specs say 22 start up amps. There's no way my genny can push that, so I don't know how it works. I have used it for more than 40 hours on Genny power though.

I do try and start the unit up slowly: First turn on the fan only. Wait about 10 seconds, then turn on 'Low Cool', and it holds. I don't think there's much difference in "low cool' and 'high cool' on this little thing except fan speed. Compressor cycling is controlled by the numbered knob (1 -7). It really only cools on 6-7 though. I don't remember if I turn it up to "High" or not, as 'Low' works fine.

There are also differences in generators that were exposed during my experiments. I have had 3 generators: a cheap harbor freight 2 cycle, an early Yamaha 1000, and this Yamaha 1000is Inverter. The cheap one was heavy and loud, (>50 lbs) so I replaced it with the early Yamaha 1000, which was also heavy (>40 lbs). I never tested the cheap one with any AC, but the Early Yamaha had a 'little bit" more punch than the newer one does. I never tested any Honda.

The lesson here is: don't depend on written specs. Give it a try and see if it works. And let the whole setup run for an hour or so to make sure it keeps working before you head out expecting deep woods air conditioning.

I mention this because someone may have do do the legwork all over again to find an AC unit that will work on a 1K genny, if you can't find this specific model (Arctic King WWK-05CMN1-BI7)... So you were warned!

 

[IdaSHO]

IdaSHO, your amperage question has gotten me looking at HOW it works with my little Yamaha 1000is generator, and it's looking like the Arctic King WWK-05CMN1-BI7 is discontinued, and has no real amperage specifications I can find. Thanks for the Midea tip. They have some on their site that would appear to be the equivalent, or the updated model. The specifications they are quoting just don't add up. The smallest one I can find is this one: Midea (Arctic King) AKW+05CR4. It's specs say 22 start up amps. There's no way my genny can push that, so I don't know how it works. I have used it for more than 40 hours on Genny power though.



The lesson here is: don't depend on written specs.

lol

That's why I made the comment about the EER ratings being bogus.


Regardless of MFG, the vast majority of MFGs are Chinese, and the specs, as you are finding, simply do not add up.

Are they decent units? Sure, possibly....

But dont trust the numbers, especially when provided by the MFG :sombrero:

 

[andytruck]

So, the Artick King os no longer for sale…. Anyone using a small AC unit with a 1000kw small generator that knows for sure they work well together?

 

[IdaSHO]

That particular model might not be, but Arctic King isnt going anywhere.

They change out models due to energy requirements and standards every few years.