Benefits of "low tech" 4WDs for expedition vehicles

[Bandicoot]

There are a number of important benefits of NOT having some of the technical wizardry that cannot be removed from “modern” 4WDs
o Cable operated 4WD mechanism rather than electric actuation
o Cable operated transfer mechanism (ditto)
o Manual free wheeling front hubs (ditto)
o Driveline mounted hand brake
o No power windows
o No power doors
o No engine immobiliser
o No ignition keys with batteries that can get wet and fail
o Ignition keys made from simple blanks that are widely available so spare keys can be easily cut
o No airbags so easier to fit bullbar etc and much more room on the dash where things can be stored, screwed onto etc
o No diesel particulate filter
o No ABS, anti-roll or traction control systems
o No stability systems
o Easy to clean vinyl floors (with removable marine-grade carpet runner overlay to reduce “cold feet” in winter)
Avoiding many of the controls in modern 4WDs to make it “idiot proof” (what I call “4WDing for dummies”). Many of these are annoying, but in some cases can be contribute to accidents:
o No interlock of seat belts with engine/chiming when seats belts are off
o Can leave door open with keys in the ignition without annoying chimes
o Can start the engine without having foot on the clutch
o Can move from low range to high range “on the move” (with training and suitable technique)
In addition, the omission of much of this technical gadgetry, along with other luxury appointments, frees up important load-carrying ability for items that are far more important on an expedition vehicle.
Bandicoot

 

[Rosco862003]

Agreed..

However one missing factor that usually comes along with those is age. Most of the vehicles that fit into that parameter are getting along in age. This leads to another highly important factor in expedition use which is reliability. Unfortunately, here in the states we don't get all the cool Landcruisers that come from the factory with lockers solid axles and a snorkel. The minute Landcruiser is brought up in 90% of any American conversation, a pinky is raised somewhere and someones ego is blown up. I guarentee that at least 70% of the people who own 80 series landcruisers/lx450's equipped with lockers dont even know what the option is. They just marked the option box because it was the top of the line, and they had to have it just so the neighbor up the street would be green with envy. Unfortunately with this digital age we are confronting a new breed of lazy folk. Consumers who crave more and more creature comforts and are willing to shell out the loot equal to half their mortgage. I am honestly surprised that a microwave hasn't made it's way into the center console as some kind of factory option. However, I digress. My point is that here in the states for me when those qualities that you have listed surface when buying a vehicle, the only thing that comes to mind is at least 10 years old and thats pushing it.

You may ask yourself whats so wrong with buying a used vehicle. Well I will counter by saying nothing, but unfortunately some of those lazy qualities I have listed have made their way into the expo world, as can be seen with the ridiculous prices they are charging for some of the oprions listed. I am 23 years and have always dreamed of being apart of the Camel Trophy. A challenge which pitted man and machine vs Mother Nature herself. These vehicle were basically stock, minus the necessities needed to support them over the course of the trip. These vehicles didn't have thousands of dollars poured into the suspension system. I also imagine the day I will be out in the American southwest drinking a cold PBR counting endlessly the stars in the sky. Or to Alaska to be whisked away by its unforgiving beauty. I think we have derailed from the heart of what it means to go on an expedition and have gotten lost in an image of what it expeditioning is. Early expeditions were ok without the use of $500 GPS systems and a 430hp V8. The reason one goes on an expedition is to escape the confines of the world. The fast paced (make money, spend money) hub bub. At least thats my view of it, and to enjoy nature in its most unfiltered element.

The cost of most RTT's boggles my mind! sometimes $2-3000 for a unit! That is my budget for buying a vehicle, what ever happened to sleeping under the stars or in a tent. Hell if you do want an RTT, why not get a piece of plywood, hinge it and throw your tent up there when the moment presents itself. I think just as with everything else this is a hobby where vendors have taken advantage of materialistic and greedy human nature. Although I do enjoy looking at the pics of Range Rovers or Landcruisers decked out with "expo gear" I wonder at what point people will stop overloading their unnecessary roof racks, stop spending money and get out and enjoy what they have. ALot of times people talk about a particular vehicle not having alot of aftermarket support. For me this is viewed as somewhat of a good thing. Many people underestimate how far their vehicles can be pushed. I do agree that some funds should be invested into such things as skid plates, tires, and traction aids, and to some point bumpers. However because they don't make a 100000 gallon fuel tank for your isuzu rodeo doesnt mean you should disqualify it from expo use. Expo by no means dictates scoring a 1200RTI. I just reckon I'm somewhat old fashion. I by no means mean to put down anyone in anyway. I find alot of these buids interesting, inventive and downright cool. But I just want to put it out there to think before buying everything you see in a catalog, just because it looks cool. Often times it may be the part that breaks and leaves you stranded on your expedition! Keep a K.I.S.S. approach:Keep it simple stupid!:ylsmoke:

Back to your topic. I apologize if I hijacked your thread, but I saw an open window to vent out some of the issues I have with where the hobby has gone, and how the use of a low tech 4x4 is often overlooked for often times ridiculous reasons. I hope this doesnt get viewed as something as negative, just another way to look at where the sport has gone. I wish everyone a good day. Mazel mazel...good things

 

[matt s]

Vehicle is 40 years old next year. Solid, reliable, simple.

I won't say that it doesn't have age issues. However I have been through most of the truck and honestly barring a major breakdown that could happen to any vehicle I don't see it stranding me anywhere.

 

[Christian P.]

Rosco862003

This is one of the best posting here in a long time.
I think several people feel the same way as you do.

 

[haven]

Bandicoot and Roscoe862003, I found the perfect vehicle for you! :sombrero:
The finest German-American engineering, circa 1840!

Kidding aside, thanks for pointing out that you don't need to spend $50,000,
or even $5,000, to go overlanding.

 

[Desert Dan]

In the USA I think one of the simplest new 4x4 vehicles is a Jeep Wrangler.

Besides being fuel injected it still has as simple drive train with manual trans and transfer case with no electric or vacuum front axle accuator systems.

Then a Dodge diesel 4x4 with a 6-speed manual?

Any others in the US?

If you want to re-build your own retro simple rig you can build it any way you want.

In CA it would be simpler to start with an older vehicle 1975 or older to avoid smog requirements.

 

[Life_in_4Lo]

I think the Sammi's are simple, cheap and fun. Short on room for a expo rig but they are bare bones in a great way.

The Toyota mini trucks are the same- plentiful, cheap mods and simple, reliable 4x4's

ABS and stability controls (they are the same thing- just muti-use of the same hardware)
Airbags, and electronics are overstated as problem areas, imo.

At least on Toyotas, they are completely reliable and just as problematic as without- meaning, I consider them much more of an advantage than disadvantage.

 

[Peter_n_Margaret]

Vehicle is 40 years old next year. Solid, reliable, simple.

I won't say that it doesn't have age issues. However I have been through most of the truck and honestly barring a major breakdown that could happen to any vehicle I don't see it stranding me anywhere.

Ditto.......
We deliberately chose a NON fly-by-wire vehicle and brought it back to 100% reliability.
Our 1994 OKA has ONE wire that makes the engine go or stop, and I know where that wire is....:wings:

Cheers,
Peter

 

[1Engine]

Ditto.......
We deliberately chose a NON fly-by-wire vehicle and brought it back to 100% reliability.

Cheers,
Peter

Thats what I like about my 2002 NPS, tilt the passengers seat in the cab, 30 seconds to remove the cable on the engine stop actuator - bridge the start solenoid & brum.
Longest part is waiting for the wife to get back in the cab:elkgrin:

 

[wanderer-rrorc]

thats why I love my 85 ford diesel van...needs fuel...thats it...if it has fuel to the pump...all I have to do is put 12vt or wire-tie the fuel shutoff to the ON position...then spin spin spin the engine till she fires...

if it was a manual tranny...I think I would probably just back into the driveway and roll-start it every morning...:sombrero:

now it does have power accessories and ac...but its simple switches that are mechanical....so a penny will work if the switch rocker breaks...

 

[matt s]

Ditto.......
We deliberately chose a NON fly-by-wire vehicle and brought it back to 100% reliability.
Our 1994 OKA has ONE wire that makes the engine go or stop, and I know where that wire is....:wings:

Cheers,
Peter

I admit I had to look up OKA. Sweet looking rigs.

 

[Tony LEE]

I admit I had to look up OKA. Sweet looking rigs.

Not exactly common outside Oz. Fairly rare outside of WA too.

Drive nicely as well as look the part.

 

[Bandicoot]

External radio aerial

I found another great benefit of the Canter on our five week 10000 km cross-Oz trip (just back this afternoon). It has an actual manual pull-up external radio aerial. I get much much better reception from it than I did from the last SUV I had which had a new-fangled, new technology radio "aerial" built into the body somewhere but gave dreadful reception esp on AM which is the main long-distance radio in Oz. The old-fashioned external aerial seems to me to give much better reception especially when in remote areas.
Bandicoot

 

[BIGdaddy]

great thread.

I prefer the low-tech of my XJ.

OBDI on-board computer is bombproof and simple. It flashes the error codes if you turn the key 3 times...

solid axles, mechanical tcase lever/gears, robust/torquey inline 6 that was improved upon between 1984 and 2001.

One thing I hate is when new cars come out with a brand new motor. Gives me an icky feeling, without fail. Ummm...I don't want to be your guinea pig, thanks. Please beta-test this lump before it gets into my garage.

I'll agree though, that expecially with a jeep, my tendancy towards overbuilding is hard to resist. I just recently decided to upgrade/refresh my suspension, and you can't imagine all the crap I got for deciding to go "only" with 2" and 30" tires.

I personally put a lot of weight into the Camel trophy trucks and what they stand for. They went to the ends of the earth and back, with little more than heavy duty springs, a winch, a snorkel and a roof rack.

I'm hoping to emulate even a little of that glory with my Cherokee.

 

[DontPanic42]

Can't get much simpler than a '51 Willys 4WD Pickup truck.