Comparison: 1300, 416, 404, Volvo TGB, Pinz

[mhiscox]

There’s been a thread on the Unimog mailing list concerning the capabilities of some different vehicles—it started with comments about a Pinzgauer vs. a 404 Mog—and several people wrote in good information.

This afternoon, one of the Moggers, Jud Eades, wrote in with personal information covering all five of the European off-road trucks he’s had. The summary seemed quite worthwhile for those not familiar with their strengths and weaknesses, so Jud said I could post it here for general information.

Others might disagree a bit with Jud's conclusions, but overall the post was well received.

----------------------

Just thought I would add my 2 cents here about Pinz vs. Unimog vs. Volvo since I own or have owned all of them. Disclaimer! I'm not looking for a verbal fight. All of this is just my opinion some of you might feel different and that's ok with me.

1975 Volvo TGB 1111

Stock mechanically other than offset rims (2 inches) and 37 X 12.5 Goodyear MTR's.

Advantages: Best ride off road, the suspension is so cushy you can really rally it off road at high speeds without it sending you through the roof. I had oversized tires which can fit without a lift. (Stock is only 10.5 wide.) In sand it did better than all my rigs (Even better than my Diesel Mogs with 22 inch wide sand tires) In mud because it has more horse power than my other trucks it did awesome also. My employees have photos of it in big mud holes pushing water over the head lights. Water was coming up through the shift boot it was so deep. (After seeing the photos I should have killed my employees for taking it through such deep mud It also has the best top speed of all my trucks. I would imagine a 6X6 would do even a little better off road, they are geared lower and with the extra length would make it not so front heavy, but I haven't owned a 6X6 "yet."

Disadvantages: Needed lower gears for rock crawling (My oversized tires didn't help). It is front heavy so dropping off large ledges in Moab scared the crap out of me. (A couple of times the back tires came off the ground after dropping face first off a ledge) Flexed better than a pinz but not as good as a mog. The steering didn't feel really tight at high speeds, it seemed to want to wander a little. (Could have just been loose front end). With the large tires and aired down turning it at low speeds was a huge workout more than a 404 mog and more than a pinz.


1975 Pinz 712 6X6

Mechanically stock.

Advantages: Best rig for a daily driver, steering is tight, it's not too noisy, the cab doesn't seem to get as hot from the engine On hard pack dirt or rock it will go up anything (as long as you can get the bumper over it) gearing is low enough that it crawls ok. Its narrow so it fits good on skinny trails.

Disadvantages: doesn't know what articulation is! I have had it on hard trails in Moab, Utah and if there is a ledge you need to go over at an angle it will make you suck the seat cover up your butt. And that's in 6X6. A 4X4 would be worse. (I have heard they roll pretty easy). Because they are so narrow side hilling is also very scary. (I might just not know its limits but I swear I thought I was going to roll it several times) Skinny tires and being under powered made it terrible in the sand.


1968 404 Swiss Unimog

Stock

Advantages: They’re pretty inexpensive, they crawl ok, (I'm sure they would crawl awesome with the crawler gears you can buy for them) It flexes good, seems like the cheapest and easiest to buy parts for and work on. With the large bed you can haul a lot of gear.

Disadvantages: Mine had a hard time starting in really cold weather, they are super slow pulling a grade on the highway and terrible in the sand.


1983 416 Doka Unimog

Stock Mechanically

Advantages: By far the best extreme off road truck I have, power steering, tons of torque, As a stock truck it flexes better than all the others I have.You can buy tons of implements for it. Does amazing in the mud and good in the sand. This is my vehicle of choice if I'm going to be doing extreme trails.

Disadvantages: Parts are expensive, a little slower than the others, noisier than hell at high rpm's (mine is even bed lined inside and out), cab gets hot in the summer, runs and smells like a tractor.


1987 U1300L Unimog

Stock (non turbo)

Advantages: Even though it's the largest of all of mine it's the easiest to drive, quietest cab compared to all the others Goes down the road the best, plenty of power, towing capacity is sick!, great in the sand and mud. Crawls pretty good, and flexes ok. Seems to be about the same flex as the stock 404, but not as good as the 416. (could be the way all mine are set up with the springs, etc.). Power steering, great brakes, and more modern gauges and other systems.

Disadvantages: More expensive to buy than the others, parts are very expensive. Not real good in deep snow, doesn't want to float at all in soft snow. If you lose air pressure you are done, (the brakes lock shut), too big to fit on some off-road trails.


If I was forced to sell all but one of them, I would keep my 416 Doka.

Jud

Jud Eades
ARS Flood & Fire Cleanup
3120 North Main
North Logan, Utah 84341
Office 435-753-9600, Fax 435-753-9650, Cell 435-881-5153
www.arscleanup.com

 

[Esmi]

Thanks

Great post, Mike, thanks for finding and sharing. Hope it opens up a good conversation with others with multi-truck experience.

. . . if there is a ledge you need to go over at an angle it will make you suck the seat cover up your butt.[/url]

:wings:

 

[bluemog]

Sometimes I wish...

.... that I had gotten a 1300L instead of a 416 because it's quieter, easier to add air conditining to, and can be made faster & more powerful by adding overdrive & a turbocharger which are not possible on the 416 (the turbocharger is somewhat possible in a 416 but how far do you really want your turbocharger away from your engine?)

The one saving grace of a 416 is that they're available in a soft top which enabled me to fit mine into a friend's garage through a normal garage door to store it while I'm away with just 4" to spare between the top of the steering wheel and the top of the garage door. If I ever need to ship my 416 I'll be able to fit it into a shipping container by sliding the camper box into the container first followed by my removable fiberglass roof and then finally my topless truck.

Except for the one-off built by Sean Philyaw, 1300's have a fixed roof which means either RO-RO, racking, or rolling into a container on the brake discs when going by ship.

 

[Esmi]

Bump

I still don't have anything to add to this conversation, but I look forward to anyone who does.

Any lucky ducks out there with experience on multiple platforms that would like to share their observations ?

 

[mhiscox]

I still don't have anything to add to this conversation, but I look forward to anyone who does.

Any lucky ducks out there with experience on multiple platforms that would like to share their observations ?

Feel free to post up any specific questions. There's a lot of expertise here and even when we don't know something, we generally can point you to someone who does.

That said, hower, recognize that a 1300 is (unless you're a commercial driver) a giant truck; a 416 is a large truck and the 404, Pinz and Volvo are comparatively small trucks. Based on your proposed use, the size of the truck may become apparent. A 1300 is seriously not nimble, a 416 is not nimble, but the little trucks could reasonably be said to be so. There are many trails on which an SBU Unimog won't fit, but the size, comfort and relatively modern design pay off on general overland travel.

Another big difference to help you decide is that the Pinz and Volvo models discussed are generally "vans," with integrated space in the back. This can be good or bad depending on your plans. For example, it's harder to add a big cabin to a hard-sided Pinz than to a 404, but if you want something to throw a couple of sleeping bags into without any work, that suggests the Pinz and Volvo.

But there's about two hundred areas where you could compare the different trucks, so let us know if there's something specific we can tell you.

 

[M.Bas]

Feel free to post up any specific questions. There's a lot of expertise here and even when we don't know something, we generally can point you to someone who does.

That said, hower, recognize that a 1300 is (unless you're a commercial driver) a giant truck; a 416 is a large truck and the 404, Pinz and Volvo are comparatively small trucks. Based on your proposed use, the size of the truck may become apparent. A 1300 is seriously not nimble, a 416 is not nimble, but the little trucks could reasonably be said to be so. There are many trails on which an SBU Unimog won't fit, but the size, comfort and relatively modern design pay off on general overland travel.

Another big difference to help you decide is that the Pinz and Volvo models discussed are generally "vans," with integrated space in the back. This can be good or bad depending on your plans. For example, it's harder to add a big cabin to a hard-sided Pinz than to a 404, but if you want something to throw a couple of sleeping bags into without any work, that suggests the Pinz and Volvo.

But there's about two hundred areas where you could compare the different trucks, so let us know if there's something specific we can tell you.

The Volvo's and Pinz's are available in cab only when you look at the 6x6's.
Size wise the Pinz's and Volvo's are indeed "vans"

When comparing the size of them to a van I think it it the easiest to explain the size by comparing them to a Mercedes (Dodge) Sprinter.
The 4x4 are comparable to the swb Sprinter. The Volvo 6x6 swb and Pinz 6x6 compare to a mwb Sprinter and the Volvo 6x6 lwb compares to an lwb Sprinter.

My Volvo 6x6 swb (C304) fits inside a parkingspace when the rear wheels touch the curbstone and everything behind them is parked in the bushes behind the parking space (or on top of the hood from the car in the parkingspace behind yours ).
Just like with a mwb Sprinter, Ford Transit or lwb Opel Vivaro, Renault Trafic.

But just like the lwb Sprinter and Transit, trying to fit a Volvo 6x6 lwb (C306) in a parking space is absolutly a no-go

So basicly a Pinz and Volvo is a van on steroids :REExeSquatsHL1:

But on most areas comparing any of the vehicles mentioned in the title to a van is like comparing oranges with apples.

 

[spencyg]

But on most areas comparing any of the vehicles mentioned in the title to a van is like comparing oranges with apples.

Welcome to my world....



Spence

 

[Chas Stricker]

My 1250L Doka fits in most parking spots. I think it is as nimble (can you say that and Unimog in the same paragraph?) as a full size pickup and has much better turning radius. The height is what really limits me.
Chas

 

[M.Bas]

A 1250L is about 10cm longer than my C304, and I'm talking Dutch parking spaces, not US parking spaces

US parking spaces are made for pickup trucks and the like, Dutch parking spaces are not.
And your turning radius is slightly smaller then mine.

 

[mhiscox]

But on most areas comparing any of the vehicles mentioned in the title to a van is like comparing oranges with apples.

Yeah, that didn't come out right.

I meant "van" only in the sense of having integrated bodywork all the way back, as opposed to a cab with a separated bed, radio box, or whatever behind it. As was pointed out, there's nothing about these Pinz or Volvo models that would suggest comparisons with a Ford E-series, a Sprinter, etc.

 

[mhiscox]

My 1250L Doka fits in most parking spots. I think it is as nimble (can you say that and Unimog in the same paragraph?) as a full size pickup and has much better turning radius. The height is what really limits me.
Chas

Excellent point about the big 'murcun pickup truck . . . to the extent one would consider them to be nimble, then the Mogs are waaaaay more nimble turning-wise. Mog turning circles are quite small; even my gigantic Camper Mog would turn much more sharply than any of the older full size trucks. (The turning circles on new pickups are a good deal better these days, down 40% in some cases.)

 

[Esmi]

Feel free to post up any specific questions. There's a lot of expertise here and even when we don't know something, we generally can point you to someone who does.

Thanks, Mike.

No specific questions at the moment -- I am a Eurotruck sycophant, and I like to read/think about them in any way, shape, or form.

BTW, CamperMog seems to have become e-invisible since you sold her. Any idea where she went? Did you tell the owner about this site?

 

[mastermog]

Pinzgauer 716k turbo diesel

I had a pinzgauer 716k, 1989.
It was the most incredible vehicle in the world.

Automatic gears, low range, neumatic suspension, break disc, 100% diff lock (rear and back), neumatic stability control, portal axes.

The best: you could drive as fast as you want on any kind of terrain.
the worst: Very very hot inside. I sold this vehicle for this reason. I got 50ºC inside the cabin in Senegal, Africa.


Now on I have a Unimog, but It is far away from the pinz

 

[Seriousman]

Shortwheel base

This is a great experience sharing.

My dream truck would be a MOG U4000 Doka Short Wheelbase. But I heard that short wheelbase does cause discomfort at a speed higher than 50 km/h.

Could friends offer the experience for MOG Short vs MOG Long?

Thanks

 

[mhiscox]

My dream truck would be a MOG U4000 Doka Short Wheelbase. But I heard that short wheelbase does cause discomfort at a speed higher than 50 km/h. Could friends offer the experience for MOG Short vs MOG Long?

My custom 416 Mog had a very long (for a Unimog) wheelbase and rode the highways astonishingly well. But there are other Mogs whose wheelbase is too short to allow safe driving on the highway.

We in the United States unfortunately cannot have the M series Unimogs, so I cannot give specific information. However, I have driven many medium trucks and up to a point, the shorter the wheelbase, the less comfortable the highway ride. In exchange, though, the shorter wheelbase gives a tighter turning circle and is easier to manage on tight trails. For transits, you will likely prefer the longer wheelbase, the shorter wheelbase only being best for off-road or tight city traffic.