Contrast ride/drivability of Ford/Fuso/Sprinter?

[DDW]

I am thinking of building or having built a flatbed camper and I am doing research on the truck. In order to keep the truck short, a cabover such as the Fuso or Isuzu or Sprinter would be desirable, but beyond many other tradeoffs I fear the ride and drivability of the cabover may not meet my needs. My only experience with a small cabover truck was renting an Isuzu van bodied truck a couple of years ago for a few days. The cab was spartan, the ride loaded was very rough, the ride unloaded was positively inhuman, amounting to torture if ever examined by the UN. I have taken a test drive in a Sprinter van, seemed much better but still behind a Ford 450/550 in noise, cab amenities and certainly power.

I am primarily driving on freeways and secondary paved roads, with occasional excursions on maintained dirt roads. 4WD is not needed, nor is maintainability beyond North America. The alternative to the cabover would be a chassis cab truck built in the wrecker configuration, i.e, long wheelbase but short rear overhang. That would still be longer than a cabover, but not much longer than a standard pickup.

I am interested in opinions on the overall driving experience of these cabovers vs. a truck chassis cab, such as the Ford. Particularly from those who have spent some time in both. Is my initial impression of these vehicles correct?

Thanks!

 

[mhiscox]

I went through the same issues prior to deciding on my Sprinter. The Sprinter is, to my biased mind, the best alternative if you do not need 4WD and your payload is under about 2 tons (SRW 2500) or 3 tons (DRW 3500).

Notice that the Sprinter is not a cabover. The engine is well forward of the seating and you sit well behind the axle. And I've found the Sprinter passenger compartment quite comfortable (especially the seats I have) for long distances. I also find my power more-than-adequate, though I admittedly have a $300 tuning chip that made a significant improvement. I also get an honest 20 mpg out of a truck at full GVWR.

In a Fuso or Isuzu cabover, you are sitting right over the front axle, with, as you noted, attendant shortcomings in the ride. This is a perhaps a fair tradeoff for a very short bumper-to-back-of-cab measurement (BBC), but the Sprinter and E-series BBCs aren't much longer and they will have a better ride. Also, a small cabover will be happier with a highway cruise in the low 60s, whereas the others are happy at 70-plus.

The Sprinter has two big ergonomic adbantages over the E-series. The cab is somewhat taller, which will make walking back into the cabin easier. But the bigger difference is the amount of intrusion of the engine doghouse into the cabin. On the E-series, the doghouse goes quite a ways into the cabin and that makes it harder to get in and out of the seats and it also severe limits passenger footwell room. If you are traveling with someone else, be sure to have them check out the passenger seating.

 

[haven]

One factor that may help make the decision is highway cruising speed. If your weekend plan is to blast along the Interstate for 500 miles before driving 50 miles up into the hills, the faster vehicles may be a better choice.

The Isuzu and Fuso vehicles can get to 65-70 mph, but are happier and get much better mpg at 55 mph and lower speeds.

Somehow, the Sprinters can maintain 70 mph for hours on end. Their 3.0L engine must be helped by the vehicle's aerodynamics.

The fastest will be the cab and chassis models like the Ford F350. The 650+ ft-lbs of torque in the Cummins, Duramax and Powerstroke diesels make carrying a load at highway speeds almost effortless. These vehicles can maintain 80 mph or higher, although you need to pay attention to the speed rating of the tires you choose.

 

[DDW]

Thanks for the replies. I have already discounted the E-series Fords because of the near absence of passenger legroom. I don't need to drive 80, but I like to get along at 60 or 65 most of the time with the camper, and wouldn't mind 70 or more unloaded.

The Sprinter 3500 would probably have enough GVWR for what I intend to do. It has two disadvantages: 1)There is no extended or crew cab version in the USA which makes its utility problematic when the camper is not on. I got used to it with my old Dodge V10 pickup, maybe I could again. But the Supercab on my current Ford is certainly more versatile. I don't think I want to go through the work of extending the Sprinter cab, though that would be an option. Anybody seen that done? or suggestions of who might be good to do it?

2) at 95" the cab is over a foot higher than an F550 at 80". That means a pop-up would have to be used for the cabover bed area to keep from having to request FAA clearance to drive the thing. Figure a minimum of 36" plus clearance puts the Sprinter at over 11' vs. a manageable 10' on the Ford. I have no objection to a pop up on the cabover (though I do on the rest of the camper), its just a little hard to see how to do that properly - robust, no leaks, easy to operate, etc.

A Sprinter would save about 18' on the length of the loaded vehicle though maybe not much on the empty (camper-less) one.

 

[kerry]

I haven't owned a newer style Sprinter, but I owned two of the earlier 201 styles, a 307d and a 409d. Compared to my Fuso FG the Mercedes van ride is heavenly. I would still chose the Fuso for what I wanted, but the rides are not comparable.

 

[mhiscox]

At 95" the cab is over a foot higher than an F550 at 80". That means a pop-up would have to be used for the cabover bed area to keep from having to request FAA clearance to drive the thing. Figure a minimum of 36" plus clearance puts the Sprinter at over 11' vs. a manageable 10' on the Ford. I have no objection to a pop up on the cabover (though I do on the rest of the camper), its just a little hard to see how to do that properly - robust, no leaks, easy to operate, etc.

You certainly can see how gruesome a cabover Sprinter would be by looking at the Winnebago View/Itasca Navion. But don't forget that a Sprinter cab is tall enought that you will have standing height just by having a cabin of the same height as the cab, with no pop-top required. If I was building camper off a Sprinter cab-and-chassis, I'd just make the box standing height and ignore the cabover.

Good point about no possibility of an extended cab in the Sprinter. Figure, though, that for any given length overall, you can have a cabin four-plus feet longer on the Sprinter than on an F-series regular cab. Add a couple more feet for a Supercab, or a whopping more four feet for a crew cab. In short, a 19 foot Sprinter lets you have a box the same size as a 26+ foot F-series crew cab.

I doubt that extending the cab on a cab-and-chassis is very practical. It might be easier to start with a van (doesn't cost much more) and cut off the rear part you don't want and box it in back there. There's ieven a current version that's a crew cab in the sense of having a second row seat and windows. The modification doesn't seem easy in any event, though.

 

[haven]

For folks following this discussion, here's the link to the 2010 Sprinter web site. http://www.mbsprinterusa.com/ The Sprinter comes in passenger and cargo models, with several choices of interior height. You can choose between a model with single rear wheels, or one with duals to add more capacity.

The Sprinter is also available in a cab+chassis model for custom bodies. As DDW points out, in North America, single cab is the only option.

The Sprinter was originally sold in USA by Freightliner dealers and a few Dodge dealers. Sales began in 2002. A new model was introduced in 2007. After the breakup of Daimler Chrysler, Mercedes offered the Sprinter to its auto dealers in USA.

Not all MBZ dealers wanted a truck in their showrooms. Here's the web page to find a Mercedes Sprinter dealer in your area. http://www.mbsprinterusa.com/dealer-locator/find-dealer.php

 

[DDW]

Yes, I have seen the Class C Sprinter conversions, pretty tall. I need the cabover bed to accomplish the floorplan I am after. The rest of the box doesn't need to be nearly that high, hence mentioning the possibility of a pop up cabover. I don't think this would be too hideous, but tricky to execute.

The problem with cutting the box off of a van is that the 3500 is only offered in a high roof. That makes a cabover bed ridiculously tall unless the roof is also chopped. More work and MBZ says don't do it.

An F series standard cab is actually only 20" longer from back of cab to front bumper than the current Sprinter. From there back its all the same, except that the Ford overhang can be cut off by 13" - not so sure about the Sprinter, the uplifter docs don't say and it looks like you can't take off much from the drawings. LOA of a 3500 chassis-cab Sprinter is listed at 250", supercab F550 at 271" but you can cut off 13" so 258" - not that different unless something can be lost from the Sprinter.

Now with the camper on (which would have a 12 or 13' box), the Sprinter would be shorter, though about half of the 40" difference is the lack of the space behind the seats. If I modify the cab to get that back, then 20" shorter or so, still a significant difference. Also the wheelbase is 15" shorter and that would be noticed.

 

[kerry]

Have you looked at Sprinter conversions on www.mobile.de under motorhomes (wohnwagons?)? You might get some good ideas there. Also look at the earlier MB van conversions there. Lots of homemade conversions.

 

[DDW]

This wouldn't be a conversion, but a flatbed TC that happens to be on a chassis-cab Sprinter. Because of the dimensional differences with NA pickups, it would have to be purpose built for that vehicle if that is the decision. Haven't seen many of those, none on the mobile.de site that I can find. Documented here and elsewhere is a guy that put an Alaskan on a Sprinter, that's the idea but with a cabover camper and no telescoping on the main box.

Yes, I would be giving up the 40 gallon aft tank on the Ford, but would have the 28 gallon midships tank. And since a flatbed utility body would have to be built, it shouldn't be much additional effort to put as much tankage as I want there. Aft of the axle isn't the best place to hang 250 lbs of fuel anyway.

I have the Ford 2011 and the 2010 MBZ uplifter manuals. For the Sprinter you have to sign up, very simple process and then download it immediately. Lots of info in there on what they want you to do and not do.

 

[haven]

Here's the link to the thread that talks about a custom Alaskan Camper mounted on a Sprinter cab+chassis:
http://expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9415

 

[haven]

Here's an example of a pop-up on the cab-over only.

The camper is from Polycomposit, a French company that appears to be out of business.

 

[haven]

XPCamper makes custom pop-up campers designed to fit trucks with flatbeds. They could work with you to create a pop-up that would work with the Sprinter cab+chassis http://www.xpcamper.com

 

[haven]

And here's a custom Alaskan pop-up camper on a Ford flatbed. This vehicle was designed by forum member Carlyle

The build thread is here http://expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9502

 

[ersatzknarf]

Hi Chip,

WOW ! What a great idea :sombrero:

This would be a fantastic combination ! ! !

Marc (XPCamper) is a great guy and I bet he could do something that would make DDW really happy :smiley_drive:

(ps very sad if Polycomposit is gone )

XPCamper makes custom pop-up campers designed to fit trucks with flatbeds. They could work with you to create a pop-up that would work with the Sprinter cab+chassis http://www.xpcamper.com