Decision time: 4 Runner, 4 door Wrangler or FJC

[Scott Brady]

:beer:

How does one become a professional driver. I would like that designation too.

Nathan

For the purposes of your question, a Professional Driver is someone that is paid an hourly or daily rate or stipend as a pilot of a vehicle in a race, in the testing of a vehicle or automotive equipment, or is contracted for film or commercial work in driving a vehicle in a high-performance scenario.

A "stunt" driver is really just a SAG designation. So is a "precision" driver. The difference between the two is again, risk and skill.

There are many people who do work like above as amateur drivers, or hobbyist, which means they compete in amateur races, work for "gear" or exposure, etc. The transition really comes once you are paid a wage or stipend for your skills and expertise. That transition has been made by a very small group of people.

 

[calamaridog]

I will be picking up a Unlimited Rubicon tomorrow :clapsmile

Thanks for y'all's input and for keeping it (mostly) clean!!

Too cool! Enjoy your new ride.

 

[nathansharkey]

For the purposes of your question, a Professional Driver is someone that is paid an hourly or daily rate or stipend as a pilot of a vehicle in a race, in the testing of a vehicle or automotive equipment, or is contracted for film or commercial work in driving a vehicle in a high-performance scenario.

A "stunt" driver is really just a SAG designation. So is a "precision" driver. The difference between the two is again, risk and skill.

There are many people who do work like above as amateur drivers, or hobbyist, which means they compete in amateur races, work for "gear" or exposure, etc. The transition really comes once you are paid a wage or stipend for your skills and expertise. That transition has been made by a very small group of people.

Oh, OK, like a taxi cab driver right? LOL Just having some fun...

I was being sarcastic because I come across so many individuals that consider themselves as a professional_______ and when you get down to the nuts and bolts of the matter, a professional is a desgnation that can only be given by a recognized group of those like specialists that can be quantified or at least qualified by a measureable standard.

I love watching the Car and Driver Television shows and have oftened dreamed of doing the driver testing and evaluation as a career, but have never been clear on how they got their job or what makes them competent at testing automobiles.

For the record, I wasn't downplaying anyone here who calls themselves Professional in any way, just merely trying to better understand.

Another reason for the desire for the Professioanl Driver designation is that so when my wife starts with her back seat driving, I can tell her to relax, "I am a trained professional"

I know that many truck drivers, especially union ones, consider themselves as professional drivers.

Nathan:beer:

 

[Scott Brady]

I know that many truck drivers, especially union ones, consider themselves as professional drivers.

Nathan:beer:

Exactly, there are Taxi drivers and Truckers that would certainly qualify as professional drivers, just in a different venue.

My comments were specific to performance driving, racing, testing, etc. There are very few people that make a living at it.

I think it is like many things. A title really means nothing. The proof is in the results

 

[sibil]

I found this thread a very interesting read. To use a more unbiased approach to choosing an off-road vehicle, or any car in that manner, one can use a spreadsheet program, or paper/pencil, to let the numbers tell you what the decision should be. It's a bit geeky but very powerful where emotions are taken out of the decision. When I bought my 1989 Jeep Cherokee new, the Jeep was my last choice in my mind. After I drove all the candidate SUVs, did some research, and looked at the specs and put everything on paper, the Jeep came out to be the clear winner much to my surprise. That's what I bought and have never regreted it.

I summarized my approach below rather quickly. I hope I didn't make any mistakes.

 

[SavageSunJeep]

I will be picking up a Unlimited Rubicon tomorrow :clapsmile

Thanks for y'all's input and for keeping it (mostly) clean!!

You one smart man...

In a parallel note, my wife was looking to get a new car and was interested in getting a 4x4 of some kind (NOTE: She has had several Jeeps and an H2 so this is not new space for her). The JK were coming out and so were the Toy FJ's. After much looking, driving, talking she picked the JK (4 dr Rubicon) over the FJ. I was trying to be neutral but I was pushing for the FJ in spite of being a life long Jeep owner.

She ended up with a Caddy Escalade due to our order for the 07 JK Rubicon 4 dr, got pushed out to '08, then Sept became Nov, which became Dec and they gave us a delivery date of April. We had long since sold her car, a H2 and after a year of being a 1 car family, it was just too long to wait so she did the Caddy instead. 4x4, every option PLUS, the Big engine, then added on Borla SS headers, high flow cat and Borla exhaust, chip and a Whipple SC. She also like her cars to move.

 

[Bongo Boy]

A "stunt" driver is really just a SAG designation. So is a "precision" driver. The difference between the two is again, risk and skill.

I'd actually never seen the term 'precision driver' used until I read it several times in Overland Journal. I like it a lot, because I take to mean exactly what I choose it to mean.

But, while it may have been intended to refer to drivers who can perform especially-impressive feats of driving way outside the norm, I simply took it to mean drivers who pay unusually-high attention to the control of their vehicles. Drivers who know how to position their vehicles accurately, and who, while driving anywhere at anytime, concentrate on the driving because it's top on the list of things to do. My complaint (and I have so many) is the level of inattentiveness I see...it's astounding. Everyone seems to be compelled to doing 3 or 4 things at a time, while driving.

That's simply how I chose to interpret the 'title', because I admire people who, while simply tooling around town, manage to keep their vehicles inside the lane, don't need to swing wide for corners, know what a two-lane turn is and can manage it, and who generally are alert at a level that far exceeds the average. They notice potential problems, can anticipate the obvious, and can see far beyond the car in front of them. I rarely need to see another driver's turn signal to know he wants my lane--there are so many obvious signs--why are folks so surprised all the time? This isn't magic--it's just paying attention to what other drivers are doing.

...and I guess people who can manage off-road, extreme terrain driving without an escort of 4 or 5 spotters for every simple task would fit into my category of 'precision' drivers--they have some clue about their vehicle and the terrain that will be under the rig.

Back on topic, congrats on your selection and I hope you are enjoying the ride. I'm beginning to think a person's preference is all about a very simple thing: what you choose to care about and what you choose not to care about. I've not driven the JK or an unlimited of any vintage, but I can sure say I'd like more interior cargo space than offered by the TJ. Again an opinion based on little data, but I'm confident the JK can be set up for extended adventure over a far more 'adventurous' terrain than the FJ for far less money, and with far fewer practical irritations. In any case, enjoy your new treasure.

 

[cshontz]

You guys see that episode of Top Gear where the guy was driving in a parking garage trying to shave parts off on concrete pillars as many times (and as quickly) as possible without disabling the car? It was pretty impressive.

 

[SavageSunJeep]

because I admire people who, while simply tooling around town, manage to keep their vehicles inside the lane, don't need to swing wide for corners, know what a two-lane turn is and can manage it, and who generally are alert at a level that far exceeds the average. They notice potential problems, can anticipate the obvious, and can see far beyond the car in front of them. I rarely need to see another driver's turn signal to know he wants my lane--there are so many obvious signs--why are folks so surprised all the time? This isn't magic--it's just paying attention to what other drivers are doing.

what you choose to care about and what you choose not to care about.

Bong, you much smart man

I almost think that today, any driver is a precision driver that is NOT on the teley while driving.

Gonna come out of the closet here: I am an old guy and have been driving since before cars had seat belts. And only when I thought I needed to wear a seat belt would I wear one and that was not often. In '04 my wife and I retired to Scottsdale, AZ. And for the first time in 45 years of driving, I put my seat belt on before I leave the driveway.

I have driven in Europe, Lating America and Asia, but driving in this town of insane and inept drivers has me beleiving that after 45 years I NEED to wear a seat belt.

Why? Right hand turn from the left hand lane and vice versa is COMMON here and I am talking about crossing 3 lanes to do it. Stopping when the cell fone rings, this includes stopping in the middle of an intersection of main artery streets.

The other day my wife and I were driving down a street called Frank Lloyd Wright in that section there are no lights and no side streets from either direction. There in the road was a H2, a 6,500 lb rig UPSIDE DOWN with a woman standing by it on her cell fone.

Same street, wife and I are on an early evening walk. A Dodge Viper goes by and the 'cell fone rings' driver drives into the 3 ft high concrete barriers on the right side of the street that protect a cell tower. Driver corrects and the Viper goes the the left crossing 2 lanes and wraps the Viper around a tree on the median. Car is completely wrecked. The Viper was about 15 min old, brand new and he had just picked it up from the Dodge house.

I can on on and on but you get the picture.

I know some of you are like me, but come down and spend about a week here and you too will wear a seat belt....:safari-rig:

 

[Bongo Boy]

Why? Right hand turn from the left hand lane and vice versa is COMMON here and I am talking about crossing 3 lanes to do it. Stopping when the cell fone rings, this includes stopping in the middle of an intersection of main artery streets.

Oh hell, you're talking about Scottsdale Road north of Indian School all the way to FLW. Yup, it's the same everywhere. I found out about 10 years ago Colorado has no mandatory driver training and was astounded. Now I figure there may be NO states left that have mandatory driver training.

When I grew up in Michigan, you couldn't get a driver's license without having taken a driver training course, and the high schools all provided the training as a regular, required class like Phys. Ed. Duh...this is where we learned there was little excuse to ever use your brakes on the freeway, that you need to look over your shoulder before making a lane change, and that 'merge' doesn't mean 'apply brakes on on-ramp'.

There's at least one special intersection in Colorado Springs, a two-lane right turn, where about 1/3 of all drivers will move from the left of the two lanes to the rightmost one to go around the corner...and while proceeding thru the turn will change (or attempt to change) lanes to the leftmost of the two because they want the next left-turn lane into the mall. Absolutely clueless about how a two-lane turn works. Lately, my spouse and I have both noticed two bizarre behaviours running rampant: stop at an intersection 30 ft back from the ped lane marker (not a huge deal, just irritating), and swing left over the white line to make a right turn (as though you're driving a 75 ft trailer).

My personal favorite: the drive who always drives 10 mph under the speed limit regardless of traffic conditions, but who doesn't know what a solid white line means and is incapable of staying in-lane around even the most gradual of curves. Yup...I'm safe alrighty, goin' nice 'n slow. No clue where my vehicle is though.

And Don, spouse and I are amused almostly weekly with morning news of rollovers in 40 mph zones around town. No one has any clue about what their vehicles are capable of. I wonder how it is possible for a human brain to command 'panic brake' and 'hard right turn' simultaneously--I just don't know how it's physically possible for people to do this. Rear-end someone at 3mph ('cause you're on the phone), vs pull into an adjacent lane where the speed differential is 40 mph. God be with you, pal.

 

[Ranger Steve]

im sure you will enjoy your rubi alot...great choice :smiley_drive:

 

[SavageSunJeep]

And Don, spouse and I are amused almostly weekly with morning news of rollovers in 40 mph zones around town.

Then you know FLW, this happened the other day: Wife and I are driving down FLW towards 101. We are in the long stretch that has no 'lights' and only a couple of entry streets. In this stretch there are NO cross streets and there is a wide treed center divider.

We are are on the side of the street with NO streets on either side, ahead is a lady standing on the sidewalk. She is standing NEXT to a H2, which is UPSIDE DOWN on the sidewalk...****** is this? About this time we see flashing red lights coming down the road. The lady was on the fone and looked a bit ishevled but otherwise ok.

So how did she flip a nearly 7000 lb H2 upside down in a 45 mph zone with no traffic???

Scottsdale, AZ will make anyone a beleiver in seatbelts and other safety devices:smiley_drive:

 

[madizell]

When I grew up in Michigan, you couldn't get a driver's license without having taken a driver training course, and the high schools all provided the training as a regular, required class like Phys. Ed. Duh...this is where we learned there was little excuse to ever use your brakes on the freeway, that you need to look over your shoulder before making a lane change, and that 'merge' doesn't mean 'apply brakes on on-ramp'.

Sounds like you had the same driver's ed class I did in Detroit in 1965. Cody High had its own driver's training course, (not just a course of education, but an actual test track course) totally enclosed on probably 5 or 6 acres, with traffic lights, multiple streets, hills, a fleet of cars, separate classroom, and whatever was needed. Learning to drive behind a 318 Dodge V-8 on a closed course was a hoot. Gas was 25 cents a gallon. No one had multiple body piercing or insane tattoos, or wore their jeans down around their knees. Baseball hats were always on correctly, facing front. Cell phones had yet to be invented and we didn't even realize that being unable to instantly communicate with buddies 24/7 was a drawback. Why is it we didn't appreciate then just what we had going?

 

[Kachad]

I went through the same decision making process when the 4-doors came out. Bought the JK Rubi as well. You'll love it. I'm about to complete my primary mods in the next two weeks, so be prepared to start playing yourself!

 

[stjjames]

Overall the Toyota's are better daily drivers but more expensive to lift than the wranglers - wrangler are better off-road & can't beat top down wheeling

I own a wrangler & would rather DD a FJC :lurk: