Evidentiary standard for tech

Viggen

Just here...
Again there seems to be a need to add personal attacks....which just turns away anyone who might be interested in learning.

If you would leave out the ego comment, the "great expertise" and the "high horse" wording you might have a better chance of making a point without looking childish.

I also have to wonder about a thread that starts going in one direction just to change directions in order to rehash something that clearly bothers the parties involved.

Present your points clearly, without attacks and let the merits of the points stand, that is a debate. Personal attacks, mud slinging or in this case pics of mud driving only devalue the info presented.

Now would someone tell me how to get rid of the giant hydralic ram looking thing under my sons 93 RR Classic or if there is some reason I shouldn't (2 in spacer lift if that is important)

Whatever. We argue. Who cares? I sure dont. Ill agree with Mongo that if something was a good idea, it wouldve been done already. The LT230 box has been around for many decades. The V8s have been around since the late 50s/ early 60s. We all know that our rigs weigh a LOT and make little in the ways of power. If it was a good idea to gear UP, it wouldve been done already and the benefits would be known. If theres one thing that Rover owners arent, its sycophantic. If its a bad idea, we will be blunt.

What hydraulic ram thing are you speaking of? Only thing I can think of is the steering stabilizer and I wouldnt suggest getting rid of that. You can buy a relocation kit for it if you feel its too much in the way. Call Justin at Lucky 8.
 

David Harris

Expedition Leader
What hydraulic ram thing are you speaking of?

This is a Range Rover Classic thing, and some Defenders I believe. It's a hydraulic load leveling strut attached to the rear axle a-arm and the frame. It is supposed to be able to support an extra 2000 lbs of weight in the rear without effecting the suspension ride height or travel. Using this allows the use of much softer springs in the rear to improve ride and suspension flex. I have one on my 92 RRC. I haven't loaded it up that much yet, to see if it works, but I will say that the softer springs are very advantageous compared to the Disco's in terms of ride quality and flex.
 

R_Lefebvre

Expedition Leader
if something was a good idea, it wouldve been done already.

It's just such an incredible statement, I had to quote it.

Seriously?

f it was a good idea to gear UP, it wouldve been done already and the benefits would be known.

Who's talking about gearing up? If you think I am, you clearly didn't understand the concept.

You lost me at Pirate.

I haven't used it too much yet, but it seems much less delinquent than here so far.
 

mongosd2

Adventurer
Rob, do you really think that all that you've brought to the table has never been tried or discussed? Holy Cow Batman, man how do you walk thru doors...
Please explain what cutting edge ideas your bringing to the table. People have been doing all kinds of swap in Land Rover for years and just because they aren't here blowing their own horn doesn't mean it hasn't been tried. Your problem is that when you're told this, or people tell you that it's a bad idea, has little or no practical gain or is just plain stupid, you fight and twist it to have it make sense...

Please, go post some of your BS over on Pirate...I'll bring the popcorn.
 

R_Lefebvre

Expedition Leader
Frank, I refuse to listen to you and Thom when you make reference to such things without any supporting information.
 

Viggen

Just here...
It's just such an incredible statement, I had to quote it.

Who's talking about gearing up? If you think I am, you clearly didn't understand the concept.

It is an incredible statement and I wholeheartedly appreciate your quoting it for posterity. How long has the LT230 been around with all of its gear combinations? 30 years? I cannot fathom how you think that someone has not thought about putting the 1:1 gearset into their anemic and heavy 175hp to 240hp V8 transfer case until 2010. If it were a good idea, it would already have been done. That is a safe statement to make.

I am echoing your comment about the "sweet" setup in your head. You want a 1:1 gearset in the transfer case AND 4.5, or higher, in the axles. That is the dumbest "sweet" setup I have ever heard of and here is my evidence as support. In order to gain the gearing that you are looking for, you are looking to increase the number of teeth on the ring and pinion. A jump from 3.54 to 4.5x or higher, will lead to a larger number of teeth and those teeth will then have to be made more narrow (smaller). By making teeth more narrow, you decrease the contact area and actually weaken the gearset. If, as everyone here acknowledges, the weakest point of the Rover differential is the ring and pinion set, why would you want to further weaken it by adding more teeth leading resulting in a greater chance of a shock load being transferred from a pinion, which will always have larger teeth, to the ring gear, which will now have more teeth that will have to have been made smaller and thinner to fit in the same diameter? Your gearing up in the transfer case (lower numbers (1.1 vs. 1.4) makes for higher gearing, or gearing up but Im sure you already knew that) and a substantial gearing down in the ring and pinion will actually result in a WEAKER set up. True strength comes from a ring and pinion size and housing that can suitably support a higher ratio, not just upping the tooth count. Once you go above something like 4.10, you are actually weakening the gearset.

Why do Cruiser guys run with super low gears? TLC FJ80 9.5" diameter and 1.57" pinion. Strongest axle in the Rover is a Salisbury, or D60. That has a 9.75" diameter and 1.62" pinion. Land Rover Discovery is 8.6." The tooth count might be the same but youre jamming more teeth onto a now smaller area with the Rover set up. Now, newer gearsets will benefit from better design and metallurgy Im sure but that above fact remains. Im not saying that you will automatically break something but before spending that kind of money on the gearset/ transfer case AND the gearset in the diffs, why not do one of Rover Tracks FJ80 set ups in the front and Toyota V6 (might be smaller in diameter but a much better third member design) set up in the rear? Keep better hi range and gain a better low.

But then again, there is no "progress" without "new" ideas so go ahead and do it and let us know how it works out. "Progress" is something like what Rover Tracks is offering with solutions, regardless of original manufacturer, that address inherent weaknesses. Anything involving stock parts has been tried before and if it worked, wouldve been publicized and done many times over. If you think that putting in a 1:1 transfer case is breaking new ground and signals "progress" within the Rover world, you should think again. Ill look for your "progress" and development in the tech section of the latest issue of LRO as the latest big thing... Probably not.
 

muskyman

Explorer
His ego is going to be all hurt when he finds out that guys were using 1.003 ratio LT230's years ago.

I almost hate to break it to him that his ratios he listed for the old trucks were just total dream land BS as well.
 

David Harris

Expedition Leader
His ego is going to be all hurt when he finds out that guys were using 1.003 ratio LT230's years ago.

I almost hate to break it to him that his ratios he listed for the old trucks were just total dream land BS as well.


Out of curiosity, did any Rovers ever come stock with 1.003's? I'd never heard of these gears until I they were mentioned here and then saw them on Ashcroft's site.
 

Maryland 110

Adventurer
Out of curiosity, did any Rovers ever come stock with 1.003's? I'd never heard of these gears until I they were mentioned here and then saw them on Ashcroft's site.

early Range Rovers with lt95's but the same 3.54 differentals had a similar ratio. Those were 4 speeds so thats where the tall ratio worked-road speed in top gear. Had one in a 110 with a Toyota 4 liter diesel.
 
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Alaska Mike

ExPo Moderator/Eye Candy
I haven't used it too much yet, but it seems much less delinquent than here so far.
As a Jeep owner, I spent quite a bit of time there years ago, until the signal to noise ratio got too high. There's a lot of buggy-fueled, "who is more hardcore" chest thumping over there. Just not my scene. I'll still browse a bit from time to time to find a specific bit of data, because there's a lot of good tech on that site if you look for it.
 

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