gas vs diesel

[IdaSHO]

Personally, Id spring for an eco-boost F150 well before a ecodiesel dodge.

Dodge truck owners, to this day still say that the Cummins is a great motor wrapped in a disposable wrapper (the truck)

If I were buying a new truck, Id buy the better truck. Period.


But with all that said, Id never buy a 1/2 ton truck unless it was just a grocery getter

To light duty for my needs.

So a new truck for me these days would be a hard decision. Very hard.

Im not impressed with any of the motor options that Ford has available for "light" trucks.

And they have even dropped many motor options for the medium duty trucks as well.

 

[Dalko43]

Personally, Id spring for an eco-boost F150 well before a ecodiesel dodge.

Dodge truck owners, to this day still say that the Cummins is a great motor wrapped in a disposable wrapper (the truck)

If I were buying a new truck, Id buy the better truck. Period.

I've been reading about teething issues with the Eco-boost F-150 as well; again new designs usually equates to development problems.

I've heard that saying as well about the Ram cummins setup, and yeah, surprisingly a lot of Ram owners will readily admit to that. I think the reputation of the cummins engine more than anything else is what draws in those customers, though Ram does seem to have drastically improved some of the platform's major design flaws as of late. And it's not as if the other 2 HD pickups in the segment don't have their own flaws.

 

[Clutch]

I'm not just talking about semi-truck engines, I'm talking about all diesel engines. It's been pretty well proven that diesel engines, on average, last much longer than gasoline ones. Yes, the recent emissions changes potentially muddy the waters a bit, though like we've already acknowledged, those systems are still relatively new.

But even the newer, emissions-compliant HD pickup engines are known to get anywhere from 500k miles to well beyond:

http://www.cumminshighmileageclub.com/truck/search

I appreciate the longevity and reliability of a Toyota gasoline engine, relative to other gasoline engines. But there is no point in comparing them to diesels in that regard...apples to oranges.

Yep, I agree with you.

 

[Clutch]

Personally, Id spring for an eco-boost F150 well before a ecodiesel dodge.

Dodge truck owners, to this day still say that the Cummins is a great motor wrapped in a disposable wrapper (the truck)

If I were buying a new truck, Id buy the better truck. Period.


But with all that said, Id never buy a 1/2 ton truck unless it was just a grocery getter

To light duty for my needs.

So a new truck for me these days would be a hard decision. Very hard.

Im not impressed with any of the motor options that Ford has available for "light" trucks.

And they have even dropped many motor options for the medium duty trucks as well.

If the choice was between the EcoDiesel and the EcoBoost...it would be the Ford.

...and that said. I really don't need "much" of truck. Little Toyotas have been working for me for 25 years...why change now? I like to keep it very light weight and simple. The only thing a new truck would do any different than what I have now is to drain my bank account faster. $25-30K for a new F150 or Tacoma...buys a lot of repairs and fuel for what I already have.

If I were going to get anything, it would be either a base model ACLB 4 banger Tacoma manual trans, or a F150 super cab 6.5' bed with the 5.0 V8. Kinda sad that the F150 gets nearly the same mpg as the 4 Banger Toyota...buddy of mine had both, he wrecked the Ford and replaced it with a Tacoma... they both get 20 mpg under his foot.

Though, I would imagine I could run the Toyota up to 300,000 mile without much issue. Those automatic Ford transmissions like to take a crap at 150-200,000 mile if you're lucky, which is a $4,000+ repair. Another moto bud just replaced his.

 

[Darwin]

Dodge truck owners, to this day still say that the Cummins is a great motor wrapped in a disposable wrapper (the truck)

4th gen Rams are very nice trucks, I don't think you will hear much complaints at about that generation, most reviews have been very good. I think you are referring to the Dodge 2nd gen, those trucks are almost 20 years old, and like was said by another poster, it's the Cummins that draws people to the dodge. I owned an OBS ford, it was nothing to write home about, and was not a noticable better truck.

 

[IdaSHO]

Yep, well 4th Gen rams are "new" by my standards. Im sure they are nice trucks.

But being less than 6-7 years old, they are still young pups.

Using the national average of 12,000 mile per year, that's a truck with less than 85000 miles.

So no surprise they havnt seen many problems, yet.


The OBS ford simply seems to hold together better than that of the 3rd gen Dodge.

 

[DT75FLH]

Yep, well 4th Gen rams are "new" by my standards. Im sure they are nice trucks.

But being less than 6-7 years old, they are still young pups.

Using the national average of 12,000 mile per year, that's a truck with less than 85000 miles.

me and one friend both bought 2010 ram diesels...he has over 140k miles towing a large camper from chicago to FL and chicago to the west every year with the family...minor repairs and the brakes lasted 80k...we meet up out west every year..both are mega cab 4x4...the interiors have held up great and he has had 1 oil leak (front cover) and ball joints at 100k (chicago roads)...my truck went 70k miles (ALL TOWING) as I have a take home work truck....I just traded mine on a 2015 ram.....

another friend is a manufactuers rep and bought a eco diesel 4x4 (he had a ford prior)in may of 2015 and has 35k miles on already and loves the truck..he is avg 28 mpg at hwy speeds.

 

[IdaSHO]

So it went a wopping 70k before you traded it in?

Not much of an argument. Just saying :sombrero:


Only strengthens my point I'm making. The trucks are still too new to see what problems will crop up at legitimate miles and age.

And by legitimate miles I'm referring to actually getting your $'s worth out of your truck purchase.

Buying a $60k+ truck, the only way you will get anywhere near getting your investment out of it is to drive it till it quits, rebuild it, then drive it till it quits again.

Trading in at 70k just doesn't do it. Your simply wasting money at that point, unless the truck is falling apart around you already and it is a nickle and dime show.

Maybe the new dodges DO fall apart that soon, regardless of motor health. So why did you trade in?? :coffeedrink:

 

[punisher1130]

Wow this is the most in-depth convocation I have had on this topic, I'm loving it, lots of good points all around but in all fairness, Toyota's shouldn't count we all know they are hard to kill though they do hold up to par in rang and reliability to diesels. I have seen both cases where a Toyota lives longer than a diesel and viscera.

 

[thepotz]

Ok. So IMHO if you are going to overland in the stated buy a Toyota gas. If you are going to overland in other countries, buy an old diesel land rover. Not because they are the most reliable, but because they can be fixed abroad, and the issues are well known by now and parts availability are better abroad and they will run any diesel or oil through them in a pinch. If you plan on overlanding in cold climates go gas cuz old diesels don't start easily in the cold. New diesels and New gas engines are a sensor nightmare. A bad sensor or catalytic converter will someday leave you limping along at 15mph and struggling to clear the smallest incline. Carbs are the clear winner when it comes to fixability and making it home, but they lack performance when it comes to steep angles and rough bouncy terrain where they flood or starve the engine due to float bowls. Points ignition will get you home but suck at holding dwell and gap since they constantly wear. In my opinion early fuel injected engines with the smog and cat removed and a electronic ignition module in the glovebox is the way to go!

 

[AK.xplorer]

There are horrible gas engines out there, as well as horrible diesels out there. I tend to not care too much if vehicle has a diesel or a gas engine. What's my biggest desire, is an inline six engine. These glorious engines were meant for an overland rig. They give you that low-down torque to help you carry large loads in a very controlled manner. You don't have to rev them hard, to find the grunt.

Behind my boat shop, there are two old international medium duty trucks. One has a red diamond 450 ci inline six in it. the other, a 350 cubic inch black diamond engine. They're real fun to marvel over, how truck engines were back in the day.

The thing about inline six engines, is that most of them develop a reputation regarding the ease of maintenance and the longevity. That alone, allows me to not be a brand loyalist, smoking that fan-boy crack, getting all excited about torque-less, one-size-fit-all mini van engines made by toyota, or those worthless eco boost junkers, or the jeep 3.8 junker that dies at 50,000 miles.

Some automakers have learned their lesson, and are dropping the boring mini van engine:
http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/car-technology/news/a31366/mercedes-benz-m256-inline-six/

Ask an old school jeep guy what's lacking....it's the old school inline six
Ask an old school landcruiser guy what's lacking....its the old school inline six
Ask a ford guy what's the longest living engine ever made.......he'll say the 300 ford
Ask an old school chevy guy what it was like driving a 3/4 ton truck with the 292.....he'll tell you it was as steady as a tractor.

About all we have left, is the cummins. At least BMW continues to stomp all the other cars with their glorious inline six, so much so.......Toyota needs their help building a fun car again.

Every time I rev a cummins 6bt to shift to another gear, that motor gives me the impression it would do this for decades to come, no matter what I'm towing.
Same with the 1fz-fe, people are pushing over 300,000 on these with a head gasket change. I've worked on the following engines with great pleasure:
6bt Cummins
12-ht Toyota
1hd-T Toyota
1HZ Toyota
3FE Toyota
2F Toyota
1FZ-FE Toyota

One of my goals:
Build a 300 ford torque monster, mate it to a 5 speed manual, top it off with a brand new NP205 transfer case, and put that sucker in an FJ 60 landcruiser.........