Good expedition platform for a rookie?

[Cackalak Han]

That is what gets me. I just don't buy that the Toyota's are that much better.

I don't want to start another jeep vs toyota debate, so I won't go into that. However, I will say that resale or used value is often set by the consumers, which means it reflects the owners' direct experience with that particular brand. So when purchasing a vehicle, look at the big picture, aside the integrity and performance aspect. For instance, I bought a 95 Integra for $2500. But I could have bought a Cavalier, Neon or whatever for MUCH cheaper. And newer. However, I knew the reliability was not there, nor the resale value OR the demand. I sold it a year later for $3500 with nothing done to it but regular maintenance. And it only took me a couple of days to sell.

Anyway, just some food for thought.

Oh, and in my opinion, Toyota makes the best 4x4 out there period, and I have had my fair share of them, too.

 

[jh504]

4Rescue, I am definitely listening to you. Your several XJ's beats out my experience with one XJ. Since I am still in "research phase," which will end with a bang and suddenly I will find myself sans-vehicle, I am trying to find out as much as I can. One of my original questions was about going with a mid-90's or older vehicle. At that time I had never heard of "baselining" a vehicle. From your sig, I see you are driving a 20 y/o Toyota 4Runner. I assume it is very reliable, so, could I expect the same thing if I picked up, say, something like this?

http://boston.craigslist.org/nwb/cto/968330144.html
1991 Toyota 4Runner SR5, V6, 4x4, automatic, a/c, pw, pwr mirrors, luggage rack, tinted glass, runs great! Call 603-566-0888.

My yota is a 91 as well. If you are ok with buying a vehicle that old (which I am) then that truck would be a great start. One thing you want to watch out for on those is the headgasket on the 3.0. Find out detailed info on the motor. There is a recall on the gasket, but Toyota has done pretty well with taking responsibilty from what I can tell. The torsion bars in the front suspension are less than ideal, and the coils in the rear sag. I will be going through my entire suspension and upgrading things. 2nd gen 4runners are as plentiful as XJs if you want to go pre 96.

 

[IH8RDS]

No, there aren't... Go to a place where they abuse their trucks on a daily basis (for work AND play) and what do you find: Land Cruisers, Mini trucks, Navaras and Nissan Patrols... Sorry, Toyota (and to a lesser extent NIssan) is king of durability and relaibilty... That's a widely accepted truth. But, I digress

Cheers

Dave

holy smokes let it go. I dont want to pollute this thread with my Toyota is better then your Jeep. That is not what this thread is about. Sorry SGV.

:sigh:

 

[4Rescue]

4Rescue, I am definitely listening to you. Your several XJ's beats out my experience with one XJ. Since I am still in "research phase," which will end with a bang and suddenly I will find myself sans-vehicle, I am trying to find out as much as I can. One of my original questions was about going with a mid-90's or older vehicle. At that time I had never heard of "baselining" a vehicle. From your sig, I see you are driving a 20 y/o Toyota 4Runner. I assume it is very reliable, so, could I expect the same thing if I picked up, say, something like this?

http://boston.craigslist.org/nwb/cto/968330144.html
1991 Toyota 4Runner SR5, V6, 4x4, automatic, a/c, pw, pwr mirrors, luggage rack, tinted glass, runs great! Call 603-566-0888.

You know, nothing on my Jeeps aside from the Water pump failing and trying overheat the truck (limped home over several hours) ever just went BANG and didn't work. It was more an issue with all the creaks and groans the uni-body let out followed by alot of the front ends needing to be re-built. My dad however just had a crank position sensor fail and take teh ECU with it. something I had never thought of, but aparently it's known to hapen. Other issues I had were an Auto tranny that went out at a mere 30k and the fact that it, up untill then shifted terribly and hunted for gears constantly. I prefered the 98 and up interior vastly to the earlier trucks I had but I HATE the driving position. I feel like the roof has colapsed on my head. I like to sit up-right and have my feet go down to the pedals, plus it makes seeing stop lights impossible for me. Also the 4.0L is, IMO, REAL thirsty for fuel. This has been discussed ad-nauseaum(sp??) in other threads but when a motor is loping along at 2k/65mph I would think that it'd get better than 12mpg...

All of these things combined to make me less than happy with my Jeps. there were ALOT of interior trim pieces that just fell off or broke and eventualy I swear I couldn't hear my stereo over all the rattling. And ya know what. i've had NONE of these problems with my Toyota. Love the driving position, wish it had the power of the 4.0L but I like that my motor is next to bomb-proof. And for a truck with 240K+ it sure is quiet. Even with a few mysterious cooling issues I have never hesitated to take it across the country loaded to the gills with Rafting gear. Hell I flogged it for 1000+ miles out to Idaho around and back with a motor that was lityeraly on it's last legs. No problems. WHile I wish it was a SFA, it rides great adn frankly that has never been a determining factor on the trail.

I tell you what I miss most about my XJ is the multi-mode T-Case with full-time 4wd (IE center diff unlocked "awd" as it were) in this crap weather were having. it's nice to not have to pull over and to not feel like you're wearingout drivetrain pieces leaving it in mechanicaly locked up 4wd. That said, I like my manual hubs the other 350 days of the year


Cheers

Dave

Edit: as to the truck you were looking at, like I said, I'd personaly stay away from the Auto. They're not BAD tranny's, just that these motors feel alot better with a manual tranny behind it. More so than any other truck I've ever had. That said, yes I'd imagine you'd see ALOT of long term reliability out of that truck as long as it has been well maintained (or hell even if it hasn't) and isn't rusted out (another early Toyota issue east of the Rockies).

Happy Hunting!!!

 

[4Rescue]

My yota is a 91 as well. If you are ok with buying a vehicle that old (which I am) then that truck would be a great start. One thing you want to watch out for on those is the headgasket on the 3.0. Find out detailed info on the motor. There is a recall on the gasket, but Toyota has done pretty well with taking responsibilty from what I can tell. The torsion bars in the front suspension are less than ideal, and the coils in the rear sag. I will be going through my entire suspension and upgrading things. 2nd gen 4runners are as plentiful as XJs if you want to go pre 96.

That said, it'd be hard to find a more durable IFS system out there And Coils are cheap if you look around. I swear ALL Old Toyotas sag in the rear. it's an easy fix, but that is definatly something to figure in, you will need new rear springs almost certainly...

Another thing to consider is the 3.0L V6 is not one of Toyota's better revered motors. For the minimal ammout of power it has over the 22RE it get WAY worse milage. They are also known to blow HG's, so check to see if the truck you're looking at had the HG changed to a copper unit. I personaly prefer the 22RE 5-spd Combo, but if you're seeing mostly 3vze/5spd Combo's go for it. Just stay away from the Auto's, they are REAL dogs. Gearing (as with most trucks) is also crucial to keeping our motors in the power band.

Cheers

Dave

 

[jh504]

That said, it'd be hard to find a more durable IFS system out there And Coils are cheap if you look around. I swear ALL Old Toyotas sag in the rear. it's an easy fix, but that is definatly something to figure in, you will need new rear springs almost certainly...

Another thing to consider is the 3.0L V6 is not one of Toyota's better revered motors. For the minimal ammout of power it has over the 22RE it get WAY worse milage. They are also known to blow HG's, so check to see if the truck you're looking at had the HG changed to a copper unit. I personaly prefer the 22RE 5-spd Combo, but if you're seeing mostly 3vze/5spd Combo's go for it. Just stay away from the Auto's, they are REAL dogs. Gearing (as with most trucks) is also crucial to keeping our motors in the power band.

Cheers

Dave

Yeah mine is a standard and I am very glad. That was actually one of the main selling points of this truck for me. I will miss my low end torque but not as much as if it were an auto. I had a 3.4 auto which has about 30 more hp and it was not bad. You could drop the $1,800 down on the truck, run it till the 3.0 pukes, and drop a 3.4 in there.

I found some FJ80 coils at a junkyard for $50. They are supposed to give you a couple more inches of lift and fit just fine.

 

[Cackalak Han]

Yeah mine is a standard and I am very glad. That was actually one of the main selling points of this truck for me. I will miss my low end torque but not as much as if it were an auto. I had a 3.4 auto which has about 30 more hp and it was not bad. You could drop the $1,800 down on the truck, run it till the 3.0 pukes, and drop a 3.4 in there.

I found some FJ80 coils at a junkyard for $50. They are supposed to give you a couple more inches of lift and fit just fine.

I really prefer the 2nd gen body style. I like that they still had the tailgate. My groceries an other rolling objects always flew out in my 3rd gen with the hatch. Also, don't the earlier models have a rear tire carrier, too? A 2nd gen with a 3.4L would be a sweet rig.

 

[jh504]

I really prefer the 2nd gen body style. I like that they still had the tailgate. My groceries an other rolling objects always flew out in my 3rd gen with the hatch. Also, don't the earlier models have a rear tire carrier, too? A 2nd gen with a 3.4L would be a sweet rig.

Yes I like the tailgate very much. The 2nd gen 4runner and 3rd gen truck is probably my favorite yota body style. Mine also has the factory tire carrier which I also like. I would like to have a 3.4 in the truck, and since I will hopefully keep it forever it will probably end up getting a swap.

 

[4Rescue]

Yeah mine is a standard and I am very glad. That was actually one of the main selling points of this truck for me. I will miss my low end torque but not as much as if it were an auto. I had a 3.4 auto which has about 30 more hp and it was not bad. You could drop the $1,800 down on the truck, run it till the 3.0 pukes, and drop a 3.4 in there.

I found some FJ80 coils at a junkyard for $50. They are supposed to give you a couple more inches of lift and fit just fine.

Nice, glad you got the Manual, it really makes such a huge difference behind these smaller motors (3vze and 22R/E alike). THere are so many great options for motor swaps in these old trucks. Personaly my fav and the one I would have done if I had all the money I needed was the 1KZ-T 3.0L I4 Turbo Diesel. I love that motor and I REALLY want one in my 4Runner. One day I may go that route, but my 22RE has about 5K + on it so by the time it dies the truck will be about 40 years old eh...

Glad to hear you found some cruiser coils, just get some BJ spaces and maybe some new T-bars and you're set for awhile eh.

I really prefer the 2nd gen body style. I like that they still had the tailgate. My groceries an other rolling objects always flew out in my 3rd gen with the hatch. Also, don't the earlier models have a rear tire carrier, too? A 2nd gen with a 3.4L would be a sweet rig.

YEah, I'm a big fan of all the first 3 Body styles. they all have something I like about them. The 4th Gen is growing on me and with the locker and V8 it makes me like it even more eh.

3RD Gen: has the clean lines I really love, the 3.4 and the factory Locker.

2ND Gen: also looks clean and has 4 Doors (something I didn't think I'd miss with my 1st Gen) and still has the Tail gate.

1ST GEN: well, they really are SOOOOO cool, and to me they're basicly an entusiast collectors car. I think I like this body style the best, I love the removable top, and how utilitarin they are. the Wheel-Base is about perfect adn boy do I love that Toyta ground clearence!!!!.

Cheers

Dave

 

[SGV]

The second Gen 4Runner had the tailgate with the roll down window, while the third Gen, the whole back door swings up; Am I right? That is an option I would really like. I don't know how many times I would have liked to roll down the rear window. I don't know if this is a funny story or not, but back when I was trying to quit smoking when I owned the XJ, I cheated and had a smoke in the truck. Then I wanted to get the smell out but driving with the windows down wasn't cutting it, so I popped open the rear hatch and drove around the countryside for a while. Pretty silly, since I should have just not smoke the cigarette in the first place.

I have seen the prices come down on some of the 4Runners in my area and the 2nd gen is definitely in the affordability range; I also prefer the appearance over all the others except for the 1st generation. (He he, I think that just about all cars are starting to get uglier and huger lately.) Is the 3.4L motor a straight swap? My engine experiences are strictly limited to carbureted GM smallblocks for anything more complicated than a standard tune-up.

 

[jh504]

The second Gen 4Runner had the tailgate with the roll down window, while the third Gen, the whole back door swings up; Am I right? That is an option I would really like. I don't know how many times I would have liked to roll down the rear window. I don't know if this is a funny story or not, but back when I was trying to quit smoking when I owned the XJ, I cheated and had a smoke in the truck. Then I wanted to get the smell out but driving with the windows down wasn't cutting it, so I popped open the rear hatch and drove around the countryside for a while. Pretty silly, since I should have just not smoke the cigarette in the first place.

I have seen the prices come down on some of the 4Runners in my area and the 2nd gen is definitely in the affordability range; I also prefer the appearance over all the others except for the 1st generation. (He he, I think that just about all cars are starting to get uglier and huger lately.) Is the 3.4L motor a straight swap? My engine experiences are strictly limited to carbureted GM smallblocks for anything more complicated than a standard tune-up.

I have never looked into the specifics of the swap but a lot of people have. Here is one write up that may help. http://www.yotatech.com/f160/yotaman-s-2nd-gen-3-4-swap-114151/

 

[4Rescue]

The second Gen 4Runner had the tailgate with the roll down window, while the third Gen, the whole back door swings up; Am I right? .

Yep, you are correct sir. Although I'm not sure about the 4th Gen having a Tail gate, I do know after looking at one last night that the 3rd Gen does indeed have a traditional lift gate rear hatch. Too bad because I hinestly like the 3rd Gen's lines and color coded body clading but I would vastly prefer the tail gate/power window over the hatch. Although the hatch does have some advantages in the rain which here in portland is alot more preverlant than the sunshine

Cheers

Dave

 

[SGV]

I have never looked into the specifics of the swap but a lot of people have. Here is one write up that may help. http://www.yotatech.com/f160/yotaman-s-2nd-gen-3-4-swap-114151/

Thanks. I looked through it. Mechanically looks like a bolt in operation. I will have to follow that thread for the rest.

Yep, you are correct sir. Although I'm not sure about the 4th Gen having a Tail gate, I do know after looking at one last night that the 3rd Gen does indeed have a traditional lift gate rear hatch. Too bad because I hinestly like the 3rd Gen's lines and color coded body clading but I would vastly prefer the tail gate/power window over the hatch. Although the hatch does have some advantages in the rain which here in portland is alot more preverlant than the sunshine

Cheers

Dave

I think the tailgate or swing-out doors are a better option than the lift gate. As a veteran of several hatchbacks and my XJ, I don't know how many times I have the hydraulics fail in the cold and nearly knocked my head off:smilies27 Not a deal killer, by all means. I like the gen 3 as well and it would still be my 4runner of choice for the 3.4, and for the right price.

I know what you mean about Portland. I lived on the other side of the Puget Sound from Seattle and know all about the rain.

 

[Cackalak Han]

...Although I'm not sure about the 4th Gen having a Tail gate, ...

They do not have a tail gate. They're all just hatch doors with no tail gate. The only SUV in the Toyota line up with the tail gate is the LC. They've done away with that in all of the other models. The FJC does have the swing out, though.

But personally, that wouldn't be a deal breaker for me, or something that would really get on my nerves. If the little hatch shocks (or whatever they're called) quits working, the replacements are pretty cheap.

EDIT: Also, IIRC, only the earlier 2nd Gen's had the tail gate and some had the rear tire carrier (90 only????). The later years came with a regular hatch like the 3rd & 4th Gen's.

 

[SGV]

What does anyone know about the two-door Trooper RS? There is one for sale near me for $1400, needs minor work.