Hi-lift on rear bumper

David Harris

Expedition Leader
I guess where Thom is coming from is that you've spouted off on everything from hi-lifts to engine swaps, but no threads about your lastest adventure...

go here, to see where we've been...www.roxs.us

Great expeditions! I'm afraid I did a pretty lousy job of documenting my last trip. I was the only vehicle traveling alone with my young daughter and nephew, and I was too busy driving through the off-road parts to get any good wheeling pictures. Wasn't thinking of building a thread since I wasn't even a member of the forum until I got back. Didn't know I was going to have to have proof of the off-road experience of my truck. LOL. But looking at the trip threads on here. I plan to rectify that on future trips.

David
 

mongosd2

Adventurer
Great expeditions! I'm afraid I did a pretty lousy job of documenting my last trip. I was the only vehicle traveling alone with my young daughter and nephew, and I was too busy driving through the off-road parts to get any good wheeling pictures. Wasn't thinking of building a thread since I wasn't even a member of the forum until I got back. Didn't know I was going to have to have proof of the off-road experience of my truck. LOL. But looking at the trip threads on here. I plan to rectify that on future trips.

David

I'm with ya on the picture thing...not calling you out, but showing I'm not a poseur either...
 

muskyman

Explorer
Actually Rob I do get to come in here and say I told you so because I did. If you need me to go back and quote the threads I will.

Also to claim my posts are vague is really a joke. I am very specific with my posts for the most part. Also I have been posting land rover specific tech for a long time and recieve emails and PM's all the time thanking me for issues my posts have repaired from people in the community. Some of those tech posts are still helping people almost 10 years after I posted them.

Rob I know you don't care for me , that's expected. I have been calling you out on your lame posts a long time:D but to claim my posts are all vague is just one more example of your lack of land rover specific knowledge.
Maybe he just bought it? I don't know.

There are a lot of "elite" forum posters around here with brand new looking gear. Trying to judge people based on photos of their stuff is pretty specious at best.



Oh please. You do not get to come in here now and say "I told you so" because you never did. You just offered up your typical vague post "don't go in water, or *something* bad will happen. Your warnings are as vague as Nostradamus, just as your "tech help". I can remove an engine in 2 hours. Yeah, that's great. Thanks.

I get out and use my truck. These are the conditions I have to deal with. **** happens. Could have been worse. At least I didn't lose the whole truck. :coffee:



You say this a lot. But you're continuously told, change your delivery and you might actually get more people listening to you. But, contrary to your claims, you don't post to actually help anybody.
 

R_Lefebvre

Expedition Leader
Go ahead Tom. Find the post where you state:

"Driving in deep water can ruin the auto trans, even if your breathers are high, because it will suck in water through the oil pump seal, and auto trans will not tollerate *any* amount of water before the clutches **** the bed."

What I believe you said was:

"water can cause other things to fail"

Here, I'll help you get started.

http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/search.php?searchid=3372206

You in fact went on and on about electronic failures, and how a D1 is better at water crossings than a D2. Funny how I had a mechanical failure, not electrical, and the same thing could happen to a D1. Elsewhere you've stated that a ZF trans is the most reliable part of the truck. Again, funny how that's the part that failed. The fact is, these things cannot withstand ANY water at all. I dried out my electronics. It's fine. The electronics in the trans are still fine. I should show you pictures of the electrical connector on the trans, it's perfect, no corrosion, no rust, no dirt. It's the clutches that went, which are a mechanical component. The trans can suck in water at any time, and it dies. Ergo, I hardly consider that thing to be reliable at all.
 

Mamontof

Explorer
It Tire carrier and Hi Lift carrier , attach to my bumper :cool:
6ec9b4f47388da30292cf5955e6973e2_ccf.jpg


5bc6bea788e8d335f3d1b3f7a4d592a9.jpg
 

David Harris

Expedition Leader
Go ahead Tom. Find the post where you state:

"Driving in deep water can ruin the auto trans, even if your breathers are high, because it will suck in water through the oil pump seal, and auto trans will not tollerate *any* amount of water before the clutches **** the bed."

What I believe you said was:

"water can cause other things to fail"

Here, I'll help you get started.

http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/search.php?searchid=3372206

You in fact went on and on about electronic failures, and how a D1 is better at water crossings than a D2. Funny how I had a mechanical failure, not electrical, and the same thing could happen to a D1. Elsewhere you've stated that a ZF trans is the most reliable part of the truck. Again, funny how that's the part that failed. The fact is, these things cannot withstand ANY water at all. I dried out my electronics. It's fine. The electronics in the trans are still fine. I should show you pictures of the electrical connector on the trans, it's perfect, no corrosion, no rust, no dirt. It's the clutches that went, which are a mechanical component. The trans can suck in water at any time, and it dies. Ergo, I hardly consider that thing to be reliable at all.

I'm interested in this as well, Rob. I've looked at the photos you posted and it doesn't look like the water was extremely deep. With the dead trans controller, you were probably sitting in the water for quite a while though? LR does better than any other manufacturer I can think of in waterproofing it's breathers from the factory. Could enough water could have gotten through the input seal to kill the trans immediately? Maybe over time . . . How long was it after this that the trans failed? Only asking because I have the ZF HP22, which should in all fairness, be susceptible to the same damage, and I wan't to make sure this doesn't happen if I can help t.

David
 

R_Lefebvre

Expedition Leader
I was only in it for a few minutes. Long enough for me to unhook the strap from the front of the truck, hook it onto the back, hook it up to a D90 that was behind me, and he had to tug a few times to get me out. Couple minutes at most. The trans controller wasn't "dead", just wet. Soon as I cleaned it out, it worked fine. In the meantime, I drove around with it unplugged. I had P, R, N and 3rd gear. They have a limp home mode built into the hydraulic circuits.

That happened in August. I flushed it with 5 gallons of ATF. I drove the truck until the end of October, stored it for the winter, back out in April and it failed in May. There was little to no indication it was going. The shifts were a smidge slow, and sometimes the 1-2 felt a little funny. (normal people wouldn't pick up on it) The day it failed, it was almost instant. I was cruising in 4th on the way to a trail, it started whining, I tried 3rd gear and it was gone. I had to stop at a red light, and I could barely move. I got it about 1 mile up to the rendezvous point, and that was it. They had to tow me to Land Rover Salvage which was luckily only a few miles away. 2 days later, we went to pick it up. It was now cold, and I cleared the codes, and drove it right up onto the trailer. Flushed the trans again as it was cloudy with clutch material. I drove it a bit after that, but didn't feel confident in it. It felt funny, threw codes again, and I knew it was going to strand me again, so that was it, I parked it.

I'm not sure what could be done to prevent it, short of just never driving in water, which means never going off-road at all around here. You can expect to water ford on a class 2 utility road around here. If it came in the oil pump, then you have to stop it getting in the bellhousing. There's a drain hole cast in the bottom. And water can get in around the crank position sensor, the starter, the two rubber plugs in front, and the inspection hole on the bottom.

The JK guys local to me have been killing clutches in the water. It comes in the drain hole, and mud gets stuck in the clutch somehow. They don't change gears in the water. If they have to go in reverse, they shut off the engine, change without the clutch, then start it up in gear.

I'm planning on trying to seal it out as best as possible. I've already siliconed the slave cylinder. I might do the starter and I'm not sure about the CkPS yet. I'll seal up the drain hole, then drill and tap a new hole in the bottom for a good old fashioned wading plug.

My argument with Musky was never about whether or not water could break a truck. It was about the continuous suggestion that a D2 is just SOOO much worse than a D1 because of the electronics.
 

JIMBO

Expedition Leader
:sombrero: Thats true about the JK clutch's, but

Thats been going on as long as I can remember standard trannys and water/mud--NO SHIFT, just like your statement--turn off engine and physically shift tranny !!

When you use the clutch. water/mud will get up into the clutch disc and impregnate the disc, thereby ruining its "Clutch" duties !!

:costumed-smiley-007:wings: JIMBO
 

AxeAngel

Expedition Leader
It Tire carrier and Hi Lift carrier , attach to my bumper :cool:
6ec9b4f47388da30292cf5955e6973e2_ccf.jpg


5bc6bea788e8d335f3d1b3f7a4d592a9.jpg

No offense. But... That swing away is killing departure angle. Also all the equipment on your rear looks real dirty which kinda argues against having a hilift and other tools on the back of your rig.

Also what rack is your ground tent mounted on? Or is it just sitting on the roof rails? Thanks.

-Sam
 

Antichrist

Expedition Leader
Any time you have a component with air space and fluids in it that heat up, you can suck in water through seals and joints when that hot component hits cold water, more so when submerged. Good breathers will prevent/mitigate that, unless they are clogged.

I've been driving manual gearbox Rovers for a while, including in water, and not had issues with it causing problems, either in the gearbox or the clutch. I don't think you need to get completely compulsive about sealing. Just make sure your breathers are good, large enough, and not clogged.
 

R_Lefebvre

Expedition Leader
Tom, are you using a wading plug? I wonder if I should run a vent line to the top of the bellhousing as well, if I'm sealing it up well. Not trying to reinvent the wheel, but JK clutch failures are an epidemic up here. Never any problem with a Land Rover clutch?

What's "large enough"? Stock size?

In any case, a clutch is a lot less expensive than a trans. ;)
 

David Harris

Expedition Leader
I was only in it for a few minutes. Long enough for me to unhook the strap from the front of the truck, hook it onto the back, hook it up to a D90 that was behind me, and he had to tug a few times to get me out. Couple minutes at most. The trans controller wasn't "dead", just wet. Soon as I cleaned it out, it worked fine. In the meantime, I drove around with it unplugged. I had P, R, N and 3rd gear. They have a limp home mode built into the hydraulic circuits.

That happened in August. I flushed it with 5 gallons of ATF. I drove the truck until the end of October, stored it for the winter, back out in April and it failed in May. There was little to no indication it was going. The shifts were a smidge slow, and sometimes the 1-2 felt a little funny. (normal people wouldn't pick up on it) The day it failed, it was almost instant. I was cruising in 4th on the way to a trail, it started whining, I tried 3rd gear and it was gone. I had to stop at a red light, and I could barely move. I got it about 1 mile up to the rendezvous point, and that was it. They had to tow me to Land Rover Salvage which was luckily only a few miles away. 2 days later, we went to pick it up. It was now cold, and I cleared the codes, and drove it right up onto the trailer. Flushed the trans again as it was cloudy with clutch material. I drove it a bit after that, but didn't feel confident in it. It felt funny, threw codes again, and I knew it was going to strand me again, so that was it, I parked it.

I'm not sure what could be done to prevent it, short of just never driving in water, which means never going off-road at all around here. You can expect to water ford on a class 2 utility road around here. If it came in the oil pump, then you have to stop it getting in the bellhousing. There's a drain hole cast in the bottom. And water can get in around the crank position sensor, the starter, the two rubber plugs in front, and the inspection hole on the bottom.

The JK guys local to me have been killing clutches in the water. It comes in the drain hole, and mud gets stuck in the clutch somehow. They don't change gears in the water. If they have to go in reverse, they shut off the engine, change without the clutch, then start it up in gear.

I'm planning on trying to seal it out as best as possible. I've already siliconed the slave cylinder. I might do the starter and I'm not sure about the CkPS yet. I'll seal up the drain hole, then drill and tap a new hole in the bottom for a good old fashioned wading plug.

My argument with Musky was never about whether or not water could break a truck. It was about the continuous suggestion that a D2 is just SOOO much worse than a D1 because of the electronics.

I don't know. The whole thing surprises me, since I have seen photos of Auto D1's in a hell of a lot of water, and apparently they didn't die. Shouldn't be much different for the D2 except for the electronics. For example, here's Pangaea's D1: Continually moving through water is a big difference from sitting there stationary, though.
 

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Mamontof

Explorer
No offense. But... That swing away is killing departure angle. Also all the equipment on your rear looks real dirty which kinda argues against having a hilift and other tools on the back of your rig.
Also what rack is your ground tent mounted on? Or is it just sitting on the roof rails? Thanks.

-Sam

Sam , all tire carrier what selling true WEB to mass produce do not satisfies me as i like , so i create my own ..Yes it heavy /stable , i can use Extended Hi lift Arm over a fire to keep my pots :chef:
Regarding dirt ...well i care less hay it look as sun it function properly , even badly cover by mud Hi Lift ( i over spray by Teflon(it make mechanism work DRY well in water or any dirt /mud condition)) . I used , tested and it work like magic and safe my car from many trouble
It a base GMC RUFF RACK what i am costume modified rails to keep tent or large cargo extend cage , by simple bolted thinks what need to be cared on ruff of Tahoe / canisters,tire,sand bridges you name

Alex
 

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