How to Keep Your 3.0V6 3VZ Engine....Alive!

[Scenic WonderRunner]

How to Keep Your 3.0V6 3VZ Engine.......Alive!


If any of you have followed my stories regarding my 3.0V6 3VZ Engine.....you will understand why I am starting this thread.

Post up any and all of your helpful hints as how to keep our 3.0's working properly. Post up your problems here and hopefully get answers!





A trip to my local smog check "test only" station today gave me a thumbs down!....UG! My new engine with only 3,600 miles failed the smog test.

So I'm taking it right next door to my good guy Jose for some tweeking in da morning. It's very close, just needs something hit with a big hammer under there somewhere! If anyone understands the smog issue's on these engines.....send me a PM and I can send you some info from the report.

All of my smog equipment is new or newer....and NOT 20 years old.

God...if you are listening.....Please help rescue the "SWR"..............!

 

[BigTaco]

Are you maybe running a little rich?

 

[Grim Reaper]

Post all your test results and I mean all of them. Picture of the report would be good. they are all related and dependign on the combination will get you pointed at things to look at.

 

[DaveInDenver]

Mark's got a lot more going on that just running a little rich. He is losing quite a bit of oil, just disappearing. Obviously it's getting burnt since it's not leaking or dripping. With it not passing smog, I would definitely be getting that shop that rebuilt your engine involved. My new engine passed our state smog test last spring with similar miles on it as yours, no problem. Does CA give you a report of what passed and failed? That could help diagnose what's going on here.

 

[Grim Reaper]

Every Toyota I have come in contact with from the 80's uses oil. Most of them suck it in through the PCV. Hense the black intakes.

That said a Bleed down test to check the rings would not be a bad idea for some assurance. If it comes back within range then the oil rings may still be seating.

Toyota ran a high nickel content in their engines and that’s why the last so long. The flip side is it takes forever to get the rings seated.

My 22RE was drinking oil when I rebuilt it. The engine builder told me to quite being easy on it. Told me to hook a trailer to it and run it hard for a while. I took his advice and sure enough the oil consumption dropped big time by the time I hit 4000 miles. Now its about a quart every 1500 miles of stop and go and about ever 2000-2500 hwy and improving.

 

[DaveInDenver]

Yeah, totally hear ya on the PCV. The EGR, PCV, gasoline goo in my air plenum and intake runners took hot tanking and a drill-driven brass brush to get clean. The key was letting the machine shop soak it in the aluminum hot tank, that made them shine!

Mark's consumption last I heard was about 1/2 quart in 500 miles. My engine is barely down on the dip stick after 3000 miles (it's got about 7,500 miles on it now), so that seemed excessive. But I have also heard of freshly rebuilt engines using quite a bit of oil for a while as they break in and that makes sense. I just wouldn't expect to eat that much oil after 4000 miles if it's breaking in well.

I completely agree with Grim that a compression and leak-down needs to be done, but I would also be sure to keep the rebuild shop involved, it should pass emissions. Let us know the numbers on the emissions test, too!

 

[Scenic WonderRunner]

All great info! I don't have my printer scanner hooked up right now.....and I don't feel like messing with it at the moment.

Dave,

The SWR engine update is............

I took it to the rebuilder a couple weeks back. He put his laser temp. meter on the radiator and all coolant hoses. The coolant was as high as 204*. I told them back in Aug. it was running too warm. They told me I need a new radiator. Lucky thing my already new (20K miles) radiator had a lifetime warranty! (When I picked up my truck with new engine last spring, they had plugged up my temp water bypass which made my O/D not work! I think how ever they unplugged this bypass probably just blew the plugging particles into my new at the time radiator!...UG! Of course they won't own up!).

Now with new radiator in and 250 test miles I have no oil consumption....it's right at the Full mark. This morning I have faxed the readings from the smog check to the rebuilder and I'm going to make them "own" this one! All of my smog equipment is new or newer....not 20 years old! I've spared no expense.

When I took the truck in the other week.....I even told them that the exhaust does not smell right. That it smells too strong like it's not burning right, and I asked them to do the sniff test (like an unofficial smog test)! They didn't. I also told them that I'm getting 10 to 14mpg (is this a clue?) ..........I used to get 17 to 24.5 .




Since post's are more fun with pics...........

Would this scare you on your new engine!.....YIKES!

It's back to normal now, down below the 1/2 mark with new radiator.

 

[Scenic WonderRunner]

ASM Test Results............



Test .........HC PPM .........CO% ............NO PPM

15mph .........127 ........... 0.40 .............1729


The NO PPM (nox) is the worst!

MAX allowed is 1006 and I'm at 1729


At 25mph the NO PPM is 1134 ............max allowed 866


These NO or nox numbers.....are the worst ones.

Does that help?







.

 

[Grim Reaper]

I didn't want to come out and say this till I saw the results but there are a few things going on after reading your post that have me concerned.

The temp on the hot side of the hose being 204 sounds like what it should be. If they did anything like stick anything but what Toyota recommends for a thermostat in it it may be running too cold and never achieving closed loop or Turing off the cold start injector. That right there would cause exactly the MPG results you indicate.

Fact is I don’t trust the dash gages AT all. My gage will pop up to full temp after running 2-3 minutes after sitting all night in 20degree weather. It’s the gage because I have replaced the sender. I can bang on the cluster and get it to change.

Find out what they put for a Thermostat in it. If they put a low temp thermostat in I would start with going to the dealer and getting a replacement.

Might be time to hook up a temp gage to verify that dash gage is accurate as well.

The other thing I am seeing more and more is posts where people are finding bad fuel pressure regulators in late 80’s trucks. I am seeing these showing up on IH8MUD in the 60 series sections. I really believe mine may be bad as well. Just want to put a pressure gage on it to verify it first.

 

[Grim Reaper]

ASM Test Results............



Test .........HC PPM .........CO% ............NO PPM

15mph .........127 ........... 0.40 .............1729


The NO PPM (nox) is the worst!

MAX allowed is 1006 and I'm at 1729


At 25mph the NO PPM is 1134 ............max allowed 866


These NO or nox numbers.....are the worst ones.

Does that help?









.

That is what I was expecting to see on the test.

Is it running smooth or is it a little rough when you are accelerating?

EGR opening too much or wrong time could cause those readings.

My truck has that problem and my EGR is in fact bypassed right now. But I think I traced part it back to a bad fuel pressure regulator. They work hand in hand. Either one fails it will reflect in a high NOX.

Mine will pass the stiffer with EGR disconnected (and they don’t lift the hood here). But fails with high NOX with it is connected. The fuel pressure regulator not backing off could also be part of the problem on mine because when the EGR is suppose to be operational it needs lower fuel pressure to get the stoic mix correct.

Wrong thermostat will keep it running in "open loop" on a preset fuel map instead of sampling with the O2 sensor. Again it will cause those readings.

 

[DaveInDenver]

NOx is formed naturally when oxygen and nitrogen are exposed to very high temperatures (above 2800F). At an ideal combustion you use all the oxygen and that leaves nothing for the nitrogen to react with. You can never have a perfect combustion, so naturally some NOx is formed and the catalytic converter is designed to reverse that by reacting the NOx back into water. But there is a limit to how well that can happen and so to have a high tailpipe NOx you must be producing a ton of it upstream (assuming your converter is still good). That generally means you are either running with too much air or getting generally poor combustion.

The first thing to check is ignition timing, verify the vacuum lines and tune it up. Often it could be as simple as needing new plugs, filters and the like. But I know you've been going around with that, so you are probably trying to track down something less obvious. Like Grim says check the EGR, that's in place to reduce NOx and a stuck actuator or failed control part (the vacuum modulator comes to mind) could cause it. I would also verify that the O2 and EFI temp sensors are good and that the TPS and AFM are adjusted correctly (particularly the TPS). The 3VZ is not a terribly complex engine, there are only a few basic things that can really affect it.

 

[Scenic WonderRunner]

I just got off the phone with the engine rebuilders professional dbl. speak desk man.

They won't own up to anything and claim they only rebuilt the engine.

My position is that my old engine passed smog 2 years ago and got 17 to 24.5 mpg.

My new engine currently fails smog and gets 10 to 14 mpg. And they gave my truck back to me in this condition. All of my smog parts are 3 years old or newer! They claim they don't have the equipment to do test's on an engine. OH BROTHER!

I told him that I have given them enough chances to correct this.

Now I'm taking my truck to Jose and If I find the rebuilder is at fault, I will be contacting the CA. BAR.

If Jeep or Toyota will ever come out with an acceptable Diesel.......I'll be lookin' to seel the Eldorado!

Scam Diego........everyone here is a professional at double speak!

 

[Pskhaat]

SWR, with all due respect, can you please tell me why you won't pursue legal action?

Next, on all my old LCs a working (vs. bypassed) EGR helped reduce temperatures and NOx readings. EGR should introduce inert gas and lower combustion temps. Though certainly not the final cause of your heat, maybe it's a contributor? It should also allow the computer to advance the timing somewhat and as such I would investigate what the advance is as if it's too retarded throughout the whole cycle.

Unrelated but I don't believe the Toy F-series engines were ever designed with EGR in mind regardless of emissions values, but that's another thread and has nothing to do with the 22R*s.
​

 

[DaveInDenver]

I think of the 22R-E and 3VZ-FE (what SWR has) as advanced 3F-E in terms of complexity and operation. Not quite as sophisticated as a 1FZ-FE for sure. I do think the 3VZ-FE was designed with EPA regulations in mind and so EGR is something you need to meet both performance and emissions parameters. However, lots of people block off their EGR with success. I personally wouldn't consider that until you have the engine performance stable and at a baseline first.

I don't know the right answer, you paid them to rebuild your engine and in my mind that means doing whatever tune up to your existing EFI system necessary to get you back to pre-engine failure levels. At least within reason. I wouldn't expect them as part of the price of rebuilding to replace everything, but certainly troubleshooting as necessary to get it running right is not asking the unusual IMO.

 

[grillmasterp]

Here are some tips - How to pass smog from the Marlin Forums
http://board.marlincrawler.com/index.php?topic=1119.0