Jeep Cargo Weight

[Silvanus]

Do an leaf pack conversion , like say the J-8, Coils just don't cut it for weight distribution! If you don't weld then find an competent one in your area or do an bolt on perch system. I plan on doing just that on my TJ-L in the near future, coil fr., leafs rear, XJ's and early Ford Bronco's had that system and worked marvelously!

Just find out what the J-8 uses and go from there!

Salute,
Carlo

 

[brianjwilson]

Brian, Just for reference, is this the one you are referring to:

http://www.quadratec.com/products/16502_4001_07.htm

Looks like a pretty sweet setup!

Regards
Craig

That's the one. I've upgraded most all of my steering gear up front as well which has helped tremendously, both in handling and emptying my wallet...
AEV also has a 2.5" lift. Their suspensions are designed for heavier loads and really work well in a variety of conditions. It's not so much a "rock crawler" suspension but the suspension still has more travel than stock and a far better ride, especially with extra weight. They reuse factory control arms and other factory parts for low maintenance, smooth quiet ride, etc. Any parts can be upgraded later but the suspension is complete out of the box.

I'm not aware of any good progressive springs that provide no or little lift though.

 

[AndrewDM]

I have been sweating the weight thing with the JK since I bought it. As for the bumper and armor, there are a few fabricators that use aluminum and more will probably follow. Try https://www.nem-ind.com and http://www.undercoverfab.com

The Poly springs that Pilosopo used are what I will install to counter the weight of accessories. The ARB or AEV bumpers are better suited to the type of off-roading that I do with the Jeep. They're heavy but provide the protection needed and a low winch mount.

The game is to put the weight where it is needed and go light where you can.

-Andy

 

[pilosopo]

The game is to put the weight where it is needed and go light where you can.

-Andy

This is the key.

I used to carry a hand winch for example, but realized that a winch mounted to a bumper wasn't much heavier, but the weight is distributed better.

I sold my first RTT to get a featherlite. It's only 80lb or so.

I realized my trips are no more than a few days 99.9% of the time, so I consolidated my mess kit into one box/kitchen thing. Went for a smaller cooler, etc.

The Jeep really has enough capacity for me, I'm just very close to the limit and had to face reality with how I travel.

And the Poly springs were arguably my best change. Exactly 1" of lift, progressively wound, quality

 

[Chi-Town]

You do realize that the load rating of the vehicle goes beyond just suspension sag. It's what most of the suspension mounting points, arms, and other components will handle. JK's are notorious for bending the inner C's on the front axle when over loaded along with tearing off the rear track bar mount. Your weight saving idea is a good one but do use caution when you get close to that max load rating.

 

[AndrewDM]

The Jeep really has enough capacity for me, I'm just very close to the limit and had to face reality with how I travel.

And the Poly springs were arguably my best change. Exactly 1" of lift, progressively wound, quality

I have had to really scrutinize the equipment I carry and the modifications I want.

You do realize that the load rating of the vehicle goes beyond just suspension sag. It's what most of the suspension mounting points, arms, and other components will handle. JK's are notorious for bending the inner C's on the front axle when over loaded along with tearing off the rear track bar mount. Your weight saving idea is a good one but do use caution when you get close to that max load rating.

Exactly. It is not just the suspension, it is the entire drivetrain. Axles, braking system, transmission, and related suspension components are all engineered for the GVWR.


-Andy

 

[pilosopo]

I have had to really scrutinize the equipment I carry and the modifications I want.



Exactly. It is not just the suspension, it is the entire drivetrain. Axles, braking system, transmission, and related suspension components are all engineered for the GVWR.


-Andy

Agreed. Have to admit that it was fun though sourcing new toys, lol.

I went the lightweight route at first with bumpers similar in weight to stock, a hand winch so I only had it when needed, etc.

The reality was one trip showed I would benefit from having the bumpers I do now and the extra protection so I went for it.

A great compromise for the stock suspension is Airlift 1000 air bags. I have my old ones if any one is interested.

And to play devils advocate, as a product designer/design engineer, I'm sure there's a safety factor involved with weight ratings, so running near the limit should not stress components beyond their design envelope.

The issue I think, is people don't realize just how heavy their vehicles get.

I know that when camping, gear and a passenger, full tank of gas, etc. I'm right at the limit, having lightened my actual gear weight though my Jeep has become heavier

 

[JIMBO]

:sombrero: Here's a point to ponder-

My '08 JKUR, after 4 years of mods, now weighs 5200lbs, without passenger weight or additional recovery/camping/survival weight and when towing my off-road trailer (loaded) the combined GVW is approx. 6700lbs-

I've regeared the diffs and reshocked/RS9000XL adj shocks, so handling is superb and avg mileage is 14.9 mpg (hiwy)-

Weight is of no concern, even off-road-

Now this is not all BS, the major clinching point is the JKU heavy duty springs/outstanding shocks and----regearing to YUKON 5.38 gears-

The performance of this JKUR, now is vastly superior to the stock condition in Oct-'08/w 4.10 gears and vehicle weight of 4350 lbs-

You are welcome to ponder that point !

Good luck

:costumed-smiley-007:wings: JIMBO

 

[ventura911]

Thanks, Craig. I would've taken a serious look at the AEV suspensions, too, but at the time, They hadn't come out yet. I don't think you can go wrong with either set up.

 

[Gear]

Hi Jeepers,

My question is: How do people manage to tack on the bumpers, racks, etc. without sacrificing too much of their payload? Is there suspension upgrades required? How close do you stick to that 895 number, or is it something that you pay attention to?

Regards
Craig

Hi Craig,

I thought I would chime in on my 2013 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon. I just made the leap out of a 2007 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon. I was able to pull most of my stuff off of the older Jeep. This time around I was going to try and make some changes for fuel efficiency. Here is what I did.

First - here is the 2007 - Shockworks front bumper - better approach angle - worse aerodynamics. Goodyear MTR 315/75/16 tires - looked cool, better ground clearance - worse fuel economy. Suspension was a Poly Performance 3" Synergy lift.

Here is the new one, a 2013. - On the front I put an AEV bumper minus the hoop. Better aerodynamics, fantastic mounting to the Jeep(over engineered) - heavier then I thought it was going to be. Warn 9.5ti winch and Baja Design HID lights(moved over from the 2007) Side rails are TeraFlex. This is one if not the only part that I actually saved weight on. The stock ones are steal and heavier then these made of aluminum. I also like that the step is built in and protects the thin sheet metal doors from that annoying door dent. I had these on both Jeeps. One negative is you have to drill several holes in the side of your Jeep for the nutserts. Suspension is a 2.5" AEV. I did not install the lower relocation brackets that they sell for an addition $100. Custom roof rack - same on both Jeeps. In the future I hope to change out the King Starlite XL(black sheet of 1/2" plastic on the top of the Jeep under the purple bag) to something different. The Starlite has a 1/2" expansion between hot and cold, plus it is pretty heavy. Stock rims and tires - Load rating C, great ride quality so far.

The rear of the Jeep has a Jeeperman rear bumper. This came off the 2007 for one purpose. The rear legs of the roof rack rest on this bumper. I just felt it was going to be to difficult to adapt the rack to another bumper. Although with that said I am giving great consideration to dumping the swing out for the stock tire mount. I just hate having to open the swing out and then the Jeep door. Too cumbersome. Plus I would probably save some more weight.

A better view of the back of the Jeep.

Inside I built a custom floor. Around 50 pounds, but I have solid tie downs, storage on the sides, and the ability to sweep it out. You can see more in the thread below. Starts at post #229. I travel with an Engel 35 and the Outback Tailgate Table from Adventure Trailers.
http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/6947-Gear-s-Baja-JK-Thread/page23?highlight=baja
Also shown in the thread above is the PowerTank and fire extinguisher. Both have been moved over to the new Jeep.

So where am I going with all of this rambling. The Jeep above sits on the scale at 5000 pounds. I believe I have 600 pounds left over for my family of 4. The reality is you need to keep it stock/mild build or look into a trailer if you want to be under the gross vehicle weight rating.

I hope this gives you some idea's. Oh and as far as fuel economy goes. The 2007 Jeep got 12.8 towing the trailer with 5:13 gears. The new 2013 was 2 mpg better at 14.8. It still sucks but at least I don't have to down shift to pass that semi in the slow lane.

2013 Desert Rendezvous

 

[Deleted member 48574]

Do an leaf pack conversion , like say the J-8, Coils just don't cut it for weight distribution! If you don't weld then find an competent one in your area or do an bolt on perch system. I plan on doing just that on my TJ-L in the near future, coil fr., leafs rear, XJ's and early Ford Bronco's had that system and worked marvelously!

Just find out what the J-8 uses and go from there!

Salute,
Carlo

Carlo -- That sounds quite intriguing but it also seems like quite a modification! Perhaps when my warranty is out thats an option. Still, I did see a JK with a blown engin on Kijiji for 4,000 bucks -- good project car for a job like this!!

I have been sweating the weight thing with the JK since I bought it. As for the bumper and armor, there are a few fabricators that use aluminum and more will probably follow. Try https://www.nem-ind.com and http://www.undercoverfab.com

Andy, Thanks for the links -- those are nice bumpers. I do prefer a full length bumper; the protection versus the approach angle just makes more sense for the kind of work I do.

You do realize that the load rating of the vehicle goes beyond just suspension sag.....

Very good point, Chi-town. I'm a firm believer in "keep it simple, keep it stock", hence the question about stripping weight off the stock JK. Its pretty clear that when my stock components wear out I will replace them with a better aftermarket option based on the experiences of others, but your point is well met as just because it handles the weight better in terms of driveability doesn't mean it can be loaded to the gills, either!


(More to reply, just want to not overload the thread!)

 

[Deleted member 48574]

I have had to really scrutinize the equipment I carry and the modifications I want.

-Andy

Bingo - as I do more trips I realize more and more what is a "must have" and what is a luxury. Chainsaw - Luxury. Axe - Must have. The must haves are around 200 pounds of gear for 4 people for a week (food not included). And little things -- bring Whiskey instead of Beer

Agreed. Have to admit that it was fun though sourcing new toys, lol. ..... The issue I think, is people don't realize just how heavy their vehicles get.

I know that when camping, gear and a passenger, full tank of gas, etc. I'm right at the limit, having lightened my actual gear weight though my Jeep has become heavier

I have seen a fair few Ford, GM, etc. vehicles out in the bush WAY loaded down with every accessory known to man. I also quite often see trucks with 2-3 ATVs driven up on a platform that is on top of the truck box -- even though a lot of trucks' box weight is NOT equal to the 2000+ pounds of those ATVs. Most people seem to not pay attention to it at all.

The performance of this JKUR, now is vastly superior to the stock condition in Oct-'08/w 4.10 gears and vehicle weight of 4350 lbs-

You are welcome to ponder that point!

Jimbo, when it comes to modifying driveline components for a better performing rig, I think you nailed it in many ways -- it's not a "put this in and you are set". It's a recipe. You need components that will work well and compliment each other for the best possible total package. Sounds like a nice rig you have there.

Again, I want to keep things as stock as possible (simple, warranteed, etc.) but your rig does set a good example.

Cheers
Craig

 

[Deleted member 48574]

2013 Desert Rendezvous

Justin,

Thanks for taking the time to write up that much detail and to post pics of what looks like a great rig. I was scratching my head for 5 minutes trying to figure out what rack you were running. Should have saved myself the time and read the paragraph That is a VERY nice setup. My old '11 had a custom rack mounted to the rear bumper and I thought about just cutting and extending it, but decided it wouldn't ever look QUITE right on a nice new Rubi, hence the Gobi rack instead. BUt yours looks great, very nice fit and finish.

I like your stance on the rear tire carrier -- a lot of folks seem to think it's needed but if your wheels are close to stock, it's not. I also had a bike rack mount on my '11 tailgate for over a year, most often with my bike, and never a problem -- so the stock carrier is pretty stout. Plus, that's weight savings.

One thing I wanted to ask about -- you are talking Gross Vehicle Weight for a bit there; meanwhile all the data I look at is focused on Cargo Weight. For the sake of reference, can someone tell me what each is based on/what adds to each figure?

Thanks for the great conversation, everyone. I'm sure I won't be the last person to have this question so I think this thread will be useful to others in the future.

Regards
Craig

 

[JIMBO]

:sombrero: Thanx Craig, but it's never a simple single addition-

Bingo - as I do more trips I realize more and more what is a "must have" and what is a luxury. Chainsaw - Luxury. Axe - Must have. The must haves are around 200 pounds of gear for 4 people for a week (food not included). And little things -- bring Whiskey instead of Beer

I have seen a fair few Ford, GM, etc. vehicles out in the bush WAY loaded down with every accessory known to man. I also quite often see trucks with 2-3 ATVs driven up on a platform that is on top of the truck box -- even though a lot of trucks' box weight is NOT equal to the 2000+ pounds of those ATVs. Most people seem to not pay attention to it at all.



Jimbo, when it comes to modifying driveline components for a better performing rig, I think you nailed it in many ways -- it's not a "put this in and you are set". It's a recipe. You need components that will work well and compliment each other for the best possible total package. Sounds like a nice rig you have there.

Again, I want to keep things as stock as possible (simple, warranteed, etc.) but your rig does set a good example.

Cheers
Craig

You'll get caughtup in the fever and keep adding toit-

Im afraid it's the never ending story--addiction

Good luck

:costumed-smiley-007:wings: JIMBO

 

[Gear]

One thing I wanted to ask about -- you are talking Gross Vehicle Weight for a bit there; meanwhile all the data I look at is focused on Cargo Weight. For the sake of reference, can someone tell me what each is based on/what adds to each figure?

Regards
Craig

The one thing I forgot to do when I purchased the new Jeep was to have it weighted before doing any modifications. This would have given me a good base level to start with. So I go off of Gross Vehicle Weight data. This information is on a sticker affixed to the driver side door jamb. I just checked mine and it is 5700 pounds. Gross Vehicle Weight is the combined total for everything put in or on the Jeep. The trailer adds weight but not the total weight simple the tongue weight of the trailer. My Adventure Trailers Chaser #15 weights just under 2000 pounds. I believe the tongue weight is around 250 pounds. So this number needs to be added to the Gross Vehicle Weight rating. As I mentioned above my Jeep weights in at 5000 pounds on the scale. This leaves me with 700 pounds for people, belongings inside the Jeep and if I am towing the trailer I have to add in the tongue weight(250 pounds)

So my simple math looks like this.

Jeep 5000 pounds
Trailer tongue weight 250 pounds

Individuals 310 pounds(see below for explanation)

Gross Vehicle Weight 5700 pounds

Left over for stuff inside the Jeep 140 pounds.

This leaves me with 450 pounds for belongings and people. I weigh in at 190 and I have a 7 and a 9 year old. Their combined weight right now is about 120 pounds. As you can see I left my wife out of the mix. Sad to say, but if she is coming we are taking a completely different vehicle. One with a bathroom. So that is 310 pounds of people. This leaves room for the Engel fridge/food and Clothing which can be seen in the BAD bags in the back of the Jeep. This works really well because when I choose to drop the trailer we still have food and clothing with us at all times in the Jeep.

Hope this helps.

Justin