Movin' that rear axle forward....

[Wanderlusty]

So I am looking to fit some new tires....probably the 'stanard' 255/85's...and as such, needa make some room for them.

Budget restraints are for the time being going to limit me to a simple spacer and shackle lift.

So here is the question. I know that to best fit these tires, I need to relocate the axle forward at least .5 inch. In this old post, I found Scott's 3 ideas on how to do this...

http://expeditionportal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=13923&postcount=76

1. Too expensive
2. Too much expertise, and would complicate it when I DID get good springs.
3. Most likely alternative in my case....though this set for racing seems a bit pricy for .5 inches. And...are completely adjustable, something I don't really need.

I was wondering if 3/4 of an inch is too much? Looking at where my wheel is now (by eyeball, not tape measure) it seems that it could easily be moved forward 3/4 or MORE to get it on center.

The reason I am wondering if 3/4 is ok is that aside from the 'racing' ones that summit has, most I have been able to find look like the picture below. Simpler, and cheaper to boot. And....they all move the centering pin a minimum of 3/4 of an inch.

Question is...would that be ok? Or is 3/4 too far forward?

 

[ntsqd]

I backed up to Will's picture post, but other than the tire being visually slightly off center of the wheel opening, why does the axle need to move at all?
I'm more familiar with older toyotas, so this is all new to me.

 

[Wanderlusty]

If you try to fit the 255's, from everything I have read, if you dont' scoot the axle forward, the tires will rub pretty badly on the rear of the wheel well.

 

[njtaco]

You have a 2003 TRD Tacoma, right? I don't think the 255's are "standard" except on ExPortal.

Not to be negative, but ponder this...

The spacers from Summit will tend to increase axle wrap...which wears out springs.

The shackle lift on stock springs will usually wear them out faster, if they are not shot already...

When you do eventually get springs, the spacer will be useless to you, and the shackles may not be needed after all. :violent-smiley-031:

The combination of the two may make it cheaper to do the springs once with Deavers or Alcans than to do the job twice, even with some donated parts. I can relate to the "need cheap parts" scenario. I'm there now myself, and just installed a used set of 5-leaf Wheeler's (thanks to wistacoma, from here at ExPo). They will work for now, but I know I will need to add leafs for them to last. There I go doing the job twice already!

If you decide to go the shackle route, PM me, I have a set we can probably come to terms on...:jumping:

Just wondering...why are you going with 255/85's? Do you need the height, or just want it? Do you plan to regear? More money there... Just being the Devil's advocate, please don't take offence.eepwall:

 

[Wanderlusty]

Yeah...255's....standard here...nowhere else....

You illustrate this battle I have been going over and over with in my head.

Do I 'need' 255's....

Does anyone 'need' any one thing. I mean, this is a hobby...so 'need' is kind of a strange word to apply to tire height. But do I 'need' them...my last vehicle was a Jeep TJ with 3 inch lift and 33's. I pushed that down some trails where ground clearance was definitely an issue. I have not been brave enough to take the Taco down some of those same trails. So as much as one 'needs' that size...sure...I could use whatever ground clearance I can get.

Can/should I lift cheap, or at all...

Well, if I lift and how much I lift really depends on if I go ahead with the 255's. But as far as doing it on the cheap...well...that is a big deal. Where I am at is that financially, things are pretty tight right now. I just had to back out of the September White Rim trip that I have been dreaming of all year.

So why am I even considering tires, lift, etc...if money is so tight? Well, the tires I am running are almost into the wear bars. A tire purchase is imminent. The difference in cost on the tires from stock size to 265/75 to 255/85 is negligeable. So....tempted to 'aim high' so to speak.

Of course that brings us to the lift...which if I did it right now, I would have to do it 'on the cheap' or not at all.

The reason I want to go ahead with the tires is because I need tires now. The reason I want to go bigger on tires now is that I will probably be able to afford to upgrade the suspension either all, or end by end, sooner than whatever tires I buy will wear out. And I don't think I can really convince the wife that I need 'another' $500+ set of tires, though she understands 'cheapo-vs-better' lifts and would understand going cheap then upgrading the suspension.

Wasted parts...when I upgrade to the 'good' stuff.

That part does suck...but I really can't seem to make any decision that leaves me without some kind of compromise. I either 'waste' a tire purchase or 'waste' a cheapo lift purchase. The cheapo lift costs less than the tires, so it seems easier to swallow.

Scott says that 255's CAN be run with NO lift...but even if I can get 1-2 inches, it seems like I willl fit the tire better as well as give me more ground clearance.

I appreciate devil's advocates....and if I am heading in the completely wrong direction...I need to be set straight...so feel free to let loose on me...

In the mean time....lemme PM you on those shackles....

 

[DaveInDenver]

I wouldn't bother personally. No, you do not need 33" tall tires. The headaches aren't worth it, stick with what fits or do the lift right. Then get out and drive your truck places, it'll be fine. The money you save in tires and screwing around will go a lot farther in gas to actually see something.

 

[OldSven]

My old 255's pretty much showed me where they didn't fit When I installed the new Chevy's I moved the axle forward centered in the wheelwell and it has made a difference as far as rubbing goes. In your case if you want the 255's I would just trim as needed.

 

[flyingwil]

With the Rev-Tek lift I had no rubbing with 255's front or rear.... I did not experience rubbing until I switched to Coilovers and Deavers.


Not sure if that helps you out?

 

[erin]

Wil, did you lose a little height going from the spacer lift to the coilovers? The spacers always seem to be a bit higher to me, especially looking at the lower arm down angle.

 

[Wanderlusty]

Ack! My head hurts.....

So....most everyone who has had the 255's seem pretty happy with them. Those who have not ran them seem to think they are not worth the hassle...so here I am still trying to decide what to do.

The front really has me bothered. I see top plate spacers good for anywhere from .75 to 1.25 inch lift...but I read that top out spacers alone can cause issues. I read that the TRD springs (like I have) are progressive, and putting a spacer in with the springs can make the ride super stiff....

Then there is the diff drop. Should I or shouldn't I...:Mechanic:

All I am trying to do is do the best setup that (almost no) money can buy...

 

[njtaco]

IMHO,

Spacers on top of the "struts" have too many down sides if you actually use the truck off road...which it sounds like you do, so avoid them.

Spacers "in" the struts simply move the top of the compressed spring down. The change in ride has to do with suspension geometry more than spring pre-load, not a lot different than a longer spring. You risk binding the spring when compressed, though, because you now have less space to compress it in. This is not a horrible option, plenty of people here are using or have used them. In general, once you have installed them, you spend considerable time talking about upgrading out of them, so again, money spent twice. I'd buy OME springs and shocks before paying retail for either type of spacer. If they were free or on loan, I'd probably run an in-strut spacer. This is assuming I wanted/needed any lift at all...

I do not think the diff drop is needed 90% of the time. If you are not lifting more than 2", it is probably not needed. If you plan to lift more than 2", reconsider, as you lose almost all your downtravel.

The best setup almost no money can buy? 265/75r16, spend your money on the best shocks you can afford, and look seriously into what you are going to do about your rear springs. You're going to need them soon...

(begin hijack, sort of)
I've been considering 235/85r16, too. Still a 32 inch tire, but narrower yet than 255 (a 34 inch tire). Cookie cutter? Yup. But better (less) rolling resistance, less unsprung weight, less weight to spin and stop, E-range (tough sidewalls, puncture resistant), less chance of rubbing issues, especially at stock height. And I have a 4cyl, so I need all the help I can get! LOL! (end hijack)

Just my opinion, from one dreamer to another.

Also, be patient. You are probably feeling rushed, needing tires and all. Patience will bring good used (or new) parts at steep discounts.

 

[Wanderlusty]

I am really interested in Chuck's (Ursidae69) Tundra lift as a possibility. Wondering if that can be had for less than, say, OME stuff, or about the same...

Yeah...the rears....wonder why they were made so flimsy. I just now have 40k on them...and they already look like they are starting to have some negative arch to them....

If I decide to forgo the 255's....I will go with a 265/75 and no lift. That may be the best option for now....if I can't get my money to stretch far enough.

My 'ultimate' would be to have a nice set of 265/75 AT's on the stock wheels and some 255/85 MT's on some steelies that I could swap out. If I DO go with the smaller size, I will probably go with an AT and aim for the above scenario within the next few years. That would be the best of both worlds, so to speak....

 

[devinsixtyseven]

David-

If you fit a larger tire, that tire still needs to fit all the way up and turn in the wheel well, so a lift should really only be an adjustment of your compression to extension ratio, not a way to fit bigger tires unless you have a good reason and can sacrifice the travel with the wheels turned (snow wheeling, dunes).

Personally I recommend moving the sheetmetal around rather than any part of the suspension, drivetrain, frame, etc...it's the cheapest method, but not necessarily easiest or least painful as it's not a wrench job, it usually involves cutting & welding on the body, or a BFH. Are you actually rubbing the inner fender/bed, or the plastic material around the opening?

The plastic stuff can be molded with a hot air gun, the kind used to strip paint, and the head of a hammer (it's got a great curve for the job).

I hope that helps a little. Whatever you do, always keep in mind that the factory setup is well-engineered, and most of the bandaids we apply to fit larger tires tend to detract from the original design rather than augment it.

BTW I've wheeled with a few 98-04 Tacos on 31" and 33" tires, the 265/75/16 size does work very well...I used it for a while myself on the Tundra.

-Sean

 

[Wanderlusty]

Lemme post what I replied to njtaco regarding this subject earlier:

I think I am coming back around to my senses, and am thinking about just putting on some 265/75's. See, that is where I was about a week ago, and had been for some time before that...but within the last week, two things happened that got me all hyped up.

#1...helped a friend put a lift on his jeep. A 2 incher using shackles and spacers. The ride was actually as good as or better than before...so I thought...hey...I can do this....

#2.....got a small bonus at work....and got to thinking...hey....I can do this.....

Now that I am beginning to come back around to my senses....I think I will probably just go with the +1 75 series and be happy for now....though I may use that bonus to treat myself to some black steelies....

Thanks for teh reality check.

Maybe when this next set of tires wears out....I may go bigger...but for right now....I should probably just leave it as is.

Important things to remember....Tacomas are not Jeeps. A little bonus doesn't mean you can just go nutz. And...going bigger isn't always going better.

 

[Wanderlusty]

Oh...as an aside...I am still wondering about the original topic of the thread, moving the axle forward. Because even though there may be no rubbing issues, it IS oriented to the rear of the fender well....it just kinda annoys me.

Would the 3/4 that the plates pictured in the first post be too far forward?