Nut Sizes

[muskyman]

I wonder what proportion of Land Rovers are used off-road, compared to other vehicles on that chart? And how much impact off-road use would have on reliability?

If you put a full rack on a ford exploder and filled it with jerry cans and gear and then loaded the inside with a fridge and a few peli's stuffed with gear and then took it on a real off road trip I think you would be in for a rude awakening.

I have always thought that alot of the reputation of "unreliable Land Rovers" came from people that never belonged in the marque from the start. One such quote that always sticks with me was from a guy that made a dedicated web page about how bad they were. He said "it leaked and it leaked until the engine failed" That guy would have done better in a Toyota for sure.

I have always felt that part of Land Rover ownership is keeping one eye on maintenance. I also feel that is a small price for the strength,quality and capability they afford you. Over time Toyota has proven to have a edge in the reliability part but I have always felt that there are some trade offs for that reliabilty and thats why I drive Land Rovers.

 

[RonL]

Yes, I have seen a xj break its lug nuts, 35" tires helped this happen.
I think the lug nut display does a good job of showing how over built Defender/Disco1 were compared the the same year Jeeps and Fords. Start with the lug nuts, then look at the wheel bearings, then the control arms, fully box frame, full floater axles and transfer case with gears (not chain). Say what you want about LR and reliability, but they are built structural better the a Jeep or Ford.

 

[michaelgroves]

Say what you want about LR and reliability, but they are built structural better the a Jeep or Ford.

I agree, in the main. It really is a pity about the diffs and half-shafts, though! And the electrics are usually nothing to brag about either. As somebody once said, Land Rover is a continuing triumph (just) of design-engineering over production compromises! I also prefer to compare things with the best-in-class - in this case, probably Toyota - even though Land Rover then ends up looking a lot worse

 

[muskyman]

Michael

I agree with you there, Toyota is the best of class when it comes to the reliability part. They just do alot of things really well and the end result is a vehichle that people can believe in. If they would have put a drivetrain of say the FZJ80 into a body the size of the early 4runner or even just stayed on a straight axle into the tacoma I might own one.

I do just really love the 4 corner coil springs and straight axle layout of the coiler Land Rovers:wings: The weak diffs, half shafts and Cv's have proven to be a real easy upgrade so I dont look at that as a deal breaker.

Thom

 

[Antichrist]

Yes, I have seen a xj break its lug nuts, 35" tires helped this happen.
I think the lug nut display does a good job of showing how over built Defender/Disco1 were compared the the same year Jeeps and Fords. Start with the lug nuts, then look at the wheel bearings, then the control arms, fully box frame, full floater axles and transfer case with gears (not chain). Say what you want about LR and reliability, but they are built structural better the a Jeep or Ford.

For better or worse the drive train and chassis were for the most part unchanged from the 50's until the DII.
That's a pretty good testament to the durability of the Series Rovers.

As for comparing to Toyota...I've always said if I wasn't drving Land Rovers, I'd be in an FJ40 or some such.

 

[JSBriggs]

Yes, I have seen a xj break its lug nuts, 35" tires helped this happen.
I think the lug nut display does a good job of showing how over built Defender/Disco1 were compared the the same year Jeeps and Fords. Start with the lug nuts, then look at the wheel bearings, then the control arms, fully box frame, full floater axles and transfer case with gears (not chain). Say what you want about LR and reliability, but they are built structural better the a Jeep or Ford.

Land Rover Portland also used to have a frame section display that set next to the lug nut one.

-Jeff

 

[RonL]

Remember it is not a fair comparison between a LC80 series and a series 1 Disco, the 80 cost $22,000 more!!!!!(1996 LC $56,000msrp vs 1996 Disco $34,000msrp). $22G better buy more fit&finish, more reliably, and beefier axles..... If I did not have the Disco, a LC would be on the list, I love that in-line motor.

 

[muskyman]

Remember it is not a fair comparison between a LC80 series and a series 1 Disco, the 80 cost $22,000 more!!!!!(1996 LC $56,000msrp vs 1996 Disco $34,000msrp). $22G better buy more fit&finish, more reliably, and beefier axles..... If I did not have the Disco, a LC would be on the list, I love that in-line motor.

yes that is true...and you cant compare them on the trail, the LC is alot bigger and heavier and wont fit where a disco will

 

[michaelgroves]

I do just really love the 4 corner coil springs and straight axle layout of the coiler Land Rovers:wings: The weak diffs, half shafts and Cv's have proven to be a real easy upgrade so I dont look at that as a deal breaker.

Thom

For better or worse the drive train and chassis were for the most part unchanged from the 50's until the DII.
That's a pretty good testament to the durability of the Series Rovers.

Like you, I love Land Rovers! I just wish they had fixed the problem back in the 1960s - Series Land Rovers were even more notorious for broken axle shafts! I guess the diffs might not have been so much as a problem back then, as the half-shafts acted like shear-pins!

Seriously, though, it's the one thing that drives me up the wall, is when the company knows there are a few relatively minor weaknesses in a great product, and doesn't address those issues over 40 or 50 years! Back in the early 70's the weakness of Range Rover diffs was embarrassingly well-documented from their Darien Gap expedition.

 

[Antichrist]

Like you, I love Land Rovers! I just wish they had fixed the problem back in the 1960s - Series Land Rovers were even more notorious for broken axle shafts! I guess the diffs might not have been so much as a problem back then, as the half-shafts acted like shear-pins!

Seriously, though, it's the one thing that drives me up the wall, is when the company knows there are a few relatively minor weaknesses in a great product, and doesn't address those issues over 40 or 50 years! Back in the early 70's the weakness of Range Rover diffs was embarrassingly well-documented from their Darien Gap expedition.

I think they should have done more promotion of the ENV and Salisbury axles. Or just dropped the Rover axles altogether. Though in the 70's there was a heavy duty axle shaft available. I don't know how good they were as I never bought any.

I'm sure the broken diffs were a highlight of the trip for them crossing the Darien. LOL
On the other hand the Range Rovers were grossly overloaded and had much larger tires than the typical Range Rover owner would ever fit.
When the Series Rover crossed the Darien in '61 (I think it was) I didn't see mention of broken axles.

I used to grossly overload my '62 88 and never broke an axle but also rarely took it out of low range and had chains on all 4 wheels for a large part of the year.

I do agree they are the biggest weak point though.

 

[RonL]

I had my rear Diff explode at highway speed, 850 miles from home, yes I was overloaded with stock gears and 255/85-16 tires. I stop, pulled the axles and rear shaft and drive home in front wheel drive. I broke an axle in Farmington, and drove to the hotel, then fixed it. Yes, axle and diffs are weak, but when they break, you can still get home. When a ford, jeep or chevy break a diff or axle you are no moving. Thank God for full floater axles.

 

[UK4X4]

"If you put a full rack on a ford exploder and filled it with jerry cans and gear and then loaded the inside with a fridge and a few peli's stuffed with gear and then took it on a real off road trip I think you would be in for a rude awakening."

Dam I mean which idiot would do something like that................:costumed-smiley-007

Gran sabana Venezuela 100km from the nearest "road"

Obviously my nuts are larger than average

 

[muskyman]

I remember your truck from when you first showed up on discoweb.

how about a run down on what kind of failures you had.

 

[R_Lefebvre]

I had my rear Diff explode at highway speed, 850 miles from home, yes I was overloaded with stock gears and 255/85-16 tires. I stop, pulled the axles and rear shaft and drive home in front wheel drive. I broke an axle in Farmington, and drove to the hotel, then fixed it. Yes, axle and diffs are weak, but when they break, you can still get home. When a ford, jeep or chevy break a diff or axle you are no moving. Thank God for full floater axles.

How do the D2 axles compare? I know they are different due to the unit hubs. Can you still pull an axle? If I understand correctly, there's an issue with the bearings needing to be retained by the axle itself?

 

[UK4X4]

"I remember your truck from when you first showed up on discoweb.

how about a run down on what kind of failures you had"

gladly - none

Other than standard maintenance issues - chain tensioners clacking- front hubs as you can't change the bearings only, a MAF, the electric 4wd drive shifter needed cleaning

Nothing that meant I walked home

And yes Ex dewb...

its nicer around here, the fires bigger, the guy's bring smores,
and the newbies get an easier time....

just to add my disco was stronger by design - but left me walking more times than the exploder

anyway, back to the thread--



Nut size !