Optima Battery Problems

[teotwaki]

Again, I'm not trying to “punish” anyone,-----snip of repetitive post-----

LOL! Neither will you admit that all this time I had a bad Optima battery. I've only pointed this out at least twice already and tried to give you a chance to 'fess up.

So for the folks who don't have the patience to wade through the whole thread: It was started by someone who was totally frustrated with his Optima battery problems. Ultimately he gave up on Optima and dumped the battery. I've had Optima batteries over a much longer period and tried to capture actual measurements of the performance (or lack thereof) and there has been a lot of good information and discussions posted by real Portal members.

I bought a new Optima battery in November of 2011 and posted up all of the problems I had with it as well as data on the charging problems and performance shortcomings. Recently I had the battery tested at Autozone, then by the dealer and then by the distributor and all of them pronounced it as BAD. Except for the official fire fighter Optima Jim that is.

This battery was defective from the start but I received no material or truly useful technical help from Optima here on the forum. There was a thinly veiled ploy by Optima to try to get me banned from the Portal but that didn't work. It was huge laugh though as it was so well, desperate. In contrast look at a classy vendor such as Adventure Trailers who bend over backwards to assist folks here and not try to suppress discussion of problems.

The thread is worth reading through with lots of good technical content from DWH and others including the discussion about the DC-DC chargers that can do a better job of maintaining a deep cycle battery than a car alternator can.

 

[Hilldweller]

OptimaJim never had the battery to test and couldn't pronounce it bad in good faith. Be fair.
He was and is doing his best to help members but he can only do what he can do. He really does give a crap about us. Amazing as it seems...

 

[teotwaki]

OptimaJim never had the battery to test and couldn't pronounce it bad in good faith. Be fair.
He was and is doing his best to help members but he can only do what he can do. He really does give a crap about us. Amazing as it seems...

Correction: He never asks for batteries to test, he never offers to tests batteries, he is never interested in testing batteries, he offers no process for sending batteries in for tests, he will not allow direct communication with a real Optima "engineer" to obtain advice and assistance with battery testing


If we are going to be fair we also need to be accurate. He offered no material assistance nor did he offer advice that was one tenth as useful or specific as that from forum member DWH. OJ never offered any direct methods to expedite battery testing and warranty. I was convinced that the battery was bad but OJ never edged even close to saying it could be bad and now after an Optima dealer and distributor have both said it was BAD OJ will still not confirm that. However, he has twice expressed keen interest in finding out who the distributor is so that he can cattle prod him for using non-accepted wording for battery testing.

 

[dwh]

The value of the SmartPass is hard to judge, especially since it doubles your costs.

Just reviewed this thread, and I see I didn't respond to this.

I think the Smartpass add-on to the CTEK is more valuable if you have an "RV" type of setup. I.e., if you have a shore powered charger on the secondary bus. If so, then when charging the secondary battery, the Smartpass will take power from the secondary side, to top off the primary battery as well.

That's handy, though I believe the brain on the National Luna isolator (and probably others) will energize the solenoid and tie the batteries if it detects elevated voltage (some charging going on there) on either side of the solenoid. So that could achieve the same result.

Also, the CTEK without the Smartpass will keep the primary battery topped off with solar (if you have solar), and that's probably good enough to maintain the starting battery 99.9% of the time.


As for the low-voltage disconnect feature of the Smartpass - that can be useful in any situation where you have some non-critical loads and some critical; such as a fridge (non-critical) and a two-way radio or a 12v power outlet to keep your Spot or GPS charged.

If the secondary battery gets too low, the Smartpass will cut power to whatever is connected to the LVD (say, the fridge) which will keep enough power available in the battery to feed the HAM, Spot or GPS - which would all have to be directly powered from the battery rather than run through the Smartpass' LVD.


I look at the CTEK setup and I think, "Yea, wow...that's a nice gizmo right there".

It's an MPPT solar charge controller that can do two battery banks. That's VERY nice.
It's also got a DC-DC charger to charge the secondary when the alternator is running. Nice.


But the Smartpass...I'm a little bit "meh" about that.

It can charge the primary from the secondary. Nice if you often use shore power, but not really needed unless you tend to run the engine battery down.
It's got the LVD, which I think would be better for protecting a starting battery, but it ain't bad to be able to protect the house battery instead.


Still, CTEK obviously though of that, which is why they made the Smartpass an add-on for those who need/want it instead of building those features into the main unit.

 

[teotwaki]

I like the CTEKs quite a bit but am a little hesitant based on cost-benefit. If I went on any more 9 or more day trips I might go for it as it is easier then deploying and repacking a solar panel and may have an advantage in less sunny climates

 

[Hilldweller]

Correction: He never asks for batteries to test, he never offers to tests batteries,...

He's picked up batteries from people on his own time/dime, on vacation, with the family (en route), and taken them back to the barn for testing.
He's on like 1500 auto forums. That spreads a guy pretty thin; he can't pick up every battery.

 

[teotwaki]

He's picked up batteries from people on his own time/dime, on vacation, with the family (en route), and taken them back to the barn for testing.
He's on like 1500 auto forums. That spreads a guy pretty thin; he can't pick up every battery.

I dunno man... your Sunny Monkey demeanor is pretty infectious.... :sunny: but Mr. OJ is still getting a FAIL. He could call a distributor in SoCal and say "Hey, this guy on a forum is really convinced his battery is bad. Please give him some time and show him our side of the story, test his battery and give him the data. Then he can come back here and tell the world we have nothing to hide". Instead he keeps asking me for the name of the distributor who replaced my battery. See what is more important to him? Not me as the customer but rather he wants to keep the Optima rank and file to keep toeing the line.

I'm sure OJ appreciates your defense but to me he spends more time on 1500 forums reposting the same message about the wall of power, state of the art Mexiacan factory, blah-blah-blah.

 

[Hilldweller]

.... He could call a distributor in SoCal and say "Hey, this guy on a forum is really convinced his battery is bad. Please give him some time and show him our side of the story, test his battery and give him the data. Then he can come back here and tell the world we have nothing to hide". Instead he keeps asking me for the name of the distributor who replaced my battery....

I understand how his hands are tied and know how he'd like to be able to take care of situations. He'd love to publish numbers, get favors done, help people out more. He's a petrol-head.
He can only do what he can do. He's helped me with battery questions, held my hand, led me to data. But I never had an Optima problem; I had an Enersys problem...

Look at some of your posts too though. Where you state that your source said that unapproved methods were used on Optima batteries ----- I'd think that would be pretty important to them and they'd want to follow-up on it.

When I lived in Florida I bought some paint from Home Depot that had a lifetime warranty if you used it as directed. I used it as directed and it still looks great on that house, 18 years later.
I told other people about the paint and they bought some. It peeled. They didn't pressure-wash the home, allow it to dry, use the same brand/type primer.
Not exactly the same thing but every manufacturer of every product with a warranty has to be concerned about how their product is used/abused once the consumer has it. They can't devote huge resources to playing detective ---- they have to rely on their test data that shows that their product has a certain failure percentage rate and that deviations from that rate need extra scrutiny.

 

[old_man]

If Optima batteries are so damned good, why do they have the crappiest (shortest) warranties out there? Mine failed 2 months out of warranty. It got discharged over night and simply never recovered. I'm an electrical engineer and I tried every charging technique in the book. The best, but still unacceptable, results came from a pulse charge technique.

If Optima Jim wants to help, he could post up the best charging method for an AGM battery. For instance, should it be a solid DC or a pulsed charge. What current profile? Limiting charge voltage? etc.

I made my living designing chargers for high tech battery packs and have all the equipment to do just about any profile.

 

[subytoy]

I have decided to use my Optima for a boat anchor (or core) and buy a new battery. I have taken it to three Optima dealers including the one I purchased it from. It always tests "good battery, needs charge". They always say it's a good battery. It discharges in about two hours sitting on a bench. One dealer actually told me "no one wants to eat $200" as the reason he wouldn't warranty the battery.

 

[Hilldweller]

I have decided to use my Optima for a boat anchor (or core) and buy a new battery. I have taken it to three Optima dealers including the one I purchased it from. It always tests "good battery, needs charge". They always say it's a good battery. It discharges in about two hours sitting on a bench. One dealer actually told me "no one wants to eat $200" as the reason he wouldn't warranty the battery.

Red, Yellow, or Blue?
Purchase date?
If it were me and I had charged it per Optima's specs and it was failing, I'd take this opportunity to contact OptimaJim via PM and ask for advice. A battery is obviously not good if it discharges in two hours. A good meter will tell you that.

Don't anybody throw a hissy in advance. Let's see if we can move this forward.

 

[subytoy]

Red Top purchased March of 2010.

 

[HenryJ]

I have decided to use my Optima for a boat anchor (or core) and buy a new battery...

I think this is the best choice of action. I have been down that road and it is much smoother. I did the "new Optima run around" for several years. Since my switch to the Diehard Platinum, zero problems, no 120V chargers to top them off every month.
Cut your losses and move on. Your money is better spent on a different battery manufacturer. JMO

 

[Hilldweller]

Red Top purchased March of 2010.

Well, if you're charging it right and they're checking it right, they should give you a new one with no hassle.
I think they're supposed to charge it fully and let it sit overnight to check the voltage drop. If it falls like you've said they should give you a new one.
It's not the retailer's money so they shouldn't have a problem...

 

[subytoy]

I was having the dealer charge it so they couldn't claim I did it wrong. I contacted Optima (Johnson Controls) and got no reply.
Today I went to Advance Auto Parts, bought one of their batteries and my Land Cruiser is happy again.