I've driven Liquid Spring trucks - they're nice, but not enough for cost IMHO. The Kelderman 4 link rear has more value and is easier to service but still expensive. If it were me, I'd probably get custom valved shocks from your vendor of choice, new front coils and a made to order rear spring pack. Not as sophisticated but cheaper and easier to live with.
Payload Tolerances: how close to max is too much?
- Thread starter ReluctantTraveler
- Start date
I've driven Liquid Spring trucks - they're nice, but not enough for cost IMHO. The Kelderman 4 link rear has more value and is easier to service but still expensive. If it were me, I'd probably get custom valved shocks from your vendor of choice, new front coils and a made to order rear spring pack. Not as sophisticated but cheaper and easier to live with.
ReluctantTraveler
Active member
The appeal of both Kelderman and Liquid Springs is the automatic leveling. Not sure it's worth $10-20k, but it's still appealing!
I know you said you were looking to jump up to a F550/5500. Would you be singling out the tires or keep the stock duallies?
TrailReady singles.
The automatic leveling is for sure a great feature. I wouldn't judge you if that was your sole purpose in getting it.
ReluctantTraveler
Active member
One great thing about being very underweight on the camper is you have tire options beyond the military tires. Opens a lot more doors.
Agreed - huge benefit.
StenchRV
Well-known member
Not sure about the F550 but my RAM 5500 the width of the outside dually tires (before), now SRW MPT 81's, and the width from inside to inside on the mirrors was almost exactly the same, hence our box is 94" wide. I can see PERFECTLY down the side of the box. The interior space is AWESOME and if you keep it short it will fit into a standard parking space. We usually back in with our rear over the grass just far enough forward to deploy the stairs.
In case you have not seen this. Andy F350 on the left our 5500 on the right. VERY similar in size due to our single cab.
We are wider than the F350 but like I said just enough to cover the tires.
CHEERS!!
ReluctantTraveler
Active member
Thanks!
I had originally wanted to the 84” CA length to fit more box, but I increasingly think a 60” would be better for parking reasons.
If you don’t mind me asking, how much did it cost to convert to super singles?
StenchRV
Well-known member
That is a loaded question as the prices have increased a LOT. I purchased 5 20" rims from Buckstop @ $2935 and sourced the MPT 81's from a local commercial tire shop I had worked with before. I have looked into replacement MPT's and they seem to run from $500 to $650 each. Good news is we only need 3 or maybe 4. I have it on good authority a new compound MPT should be out sometime soon. Not sure what Buckstop is charging for their steel wheels today. There are good aftermarket aluminum rims out there, not cheap but VERY well made. I was able to pick up my Buckstop order on the way home from O.A.T., so saved a bunch on shipping.
As for super singles, I like them. You could stay dually and drive it most places a super single can go. YES, the super singles have some advantages...SOME! I would have LOVED a SRW 37" non military tire that could take the weight of our rig, yours possibly being lighter could use the TOYO, or something similar with a higher load rating. I would have no problem going dually again if NEEDED.
There are a LOT of options the 5500 flatbed camper guys are using. Good FB group as they discuss this in detail, DRW and SRW.
FYI I love the Keldeman, the ride is a LOT!!!! better. Takes wear and tear off the truck and box. I can make repairs and make air anywhere. I looked at the Liquid Spring, lots of parts and special fluid. IN MY CASE...having lots of experience with air ride I decided on air. I know Liquid Spring owners who are very happy with their systems. PERSONAL choice.
I did ALL of the installation on the Kelderman and the Super Single conversion myself. Not hard, just time consuming.
Our 84' CA is just about perfect for the 2 of us, and our layout. Our subframe is 18" longer than the frame and my truck frame mounted custom bumper is made to fit. FOR US a 60" CA was just not long enough, it might fit your needs perfectly! A 120" was WAY too big for us. We spent a TON of time planning! SO I GET IT!
CHEERS!!
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ReluctantTraveler
Active member
That is a loaded question as the prices have increased a LOT. I purchased 5 20" rims from Buckstop @ $2935 and sourced the MPT 81's from a local commercial tire shop I had worked with before. I have looked into replacement MPT's and they seem to run from $500 to $650 each. Good news is we only need 3 or maybe 4. I have it on good authority a new compound MPT should be out sometime soon. Not sure what Buckstop is charging for their steel wheels today. There are good aftermarket aluminum rims out there, not cheap but VERY well made. I was able to pick up my Buckstop order on the way home from O.A.T., so saved a bunch on shipping.
As for super singles, I like them. You could stay dually and drive it most places a super single can go. YES, the super singles have some advantages...SOME! I would have LOVED a SRW 37" non military tire that could take the weight of our rig, yours possibly being lighter could use the TOYO, or something similar with a higher load rating. I would have no problem going dually again if NEEDED.
There are a LOT of options the 5500 flatbed camper guys are using. Good FB group as they discuss this in detail, DRW and SRW.
FYI I love the Keldeman, the ride is a LOT!!!! better. Takes wear and tear off the truck and box. I can make repairs and make air anywhere. I looked at the Liquid Spring, lots of parts and special fluid. IN MY CASE...having lots of experience with air ride I decided on air. I know Liquid Spring owners who are very happy with their systems. PERSONAL choice.
I did ALL of the installation on the Kelderman and the Super Single conversion myself. Not hard, just time consuming.
Our 84' CA is just about perfect for the 2 of us, and our layout. Our subframe is 18" longer than the frame and my truck frame mounted custom bumper is made to fit. FOR US a 60" CA was just not long enough, it might fit your needs perfectly! A 120" was WAY too big for us. We spent a TON of time planning! SO I GET IT!
CHEERS!!
I know you can actually do a lot with dually tires. The big thing is that my wife wants beach camp, and my understanding is you're gonna get yourself stuck with a DRW setup?
Don't get me wrong, I'd LOVE the 84" CA! But there are four of us so I'd need the crew cab, too, which makes it a LOONNGG rig. And, frankly, finding a crew cab with that CA has been tough.
Heck, just finding an F-550 without 150k miles on it or a "costs as much as new" price tag has been tough!
ReluctantTraveler
Active member
I think it's also interesting to look at something like the EarthCruiser Terranova.
It runs on an F-350, and from watching a few video interviews Lance did, it seems like they like to stick with the stock suspension (though I could be wrong).
How are they staying under payload limits? Lighter materials? Less stuff?
It runs on an F-350, and from watching a few video interviews Lance did, it seems like they like to stick with the stock suspension (though I could be wrong).
How are they staying under payload limits? Lighter materials? Less stuff?
StenchRV
Well-known member
Beach camp...Super Single does have an advantage there for sure.
YES finding a truck for reasonable amount is CRAZY at times! The RAM CA prices are crazy right now!
We locked in MSRP during CRAZYVID and when we picked the truck up the dealer tried to add $15K!
Did not work...LOL...but they tried.
Just had an 84" CA F550 Crew Cab stop by the hanger house....BEAUTIFUL BUILD!! It was A Boxmanufakur box with a DIY interior.
Family of 4 with a GREAT layout but also 28 feet long + the bike box. The habitat size was very close to ours, but like you said the crew cab portion makes it longer. CHOICES!
WONDERFUL PEOPLE! Family build with quality built in! NICE WORK!
CHEERS!!
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ReluctantTraveler
Active member
Beach camp...Super Single does have an advantage there for sure.
YES finding a truck for reasonable amount is CRAZY at times! The RAM CA prices are crazy right now!
We locked in MSRP during CRAZYVID and when we picked the truck up the dealer tried to add $15K!
Did not work...LOL...but they tried.
Just had an 84" CA F550 Crew Cab stop by the hanger house....BEAUTIFUL BUILD!! It was A Boxmanufakur box with a DIY interior.
Family of 4 with a GREAT layout but also 28 feet long + the bike box. The habitat size was very close to ours, but like you said the crew cab portion makes it longer. CHOICES!
WONDERFUL PEOPLE! Family build with quality built in! NICE WORK!
CHEERS!!
"when we picked the truck up the dealer tried to add $15K!"
Good on you for refusing! I've heard of dealers refusing to part with the truck if people wouldn't pay an upcharge.
"Just had an 84" CA F550 Crew Cab stop by the hanger house....BEAUTIFUL BUILD!! It was A Boxmanufakur box with a DIY interior."
I had seen the early stages of their build on YouTube a few years ago. Didn't realize they'd finished it. They're actually who I heard about Boxmanufakur from.
The extra space SURE IS nice for a family of 4! Always tradeoffs!
StenchRV
Well-known member
Interesting build. It is smaller for sure, which again is a choice. Lighter materials, less "stuff" Would have to see one in person.
Not sure what the Terranova would weigh fully loaded for a trip of a few weeks. Some of their numbers might work.
11,000 LBS dry. Add 56 gallons of water, all the food, gear and fuel you could pile on and then...maybe 12,250 LBS
Then add 4 people. I do not trust most weight claims, been around the RV industry way too long. Until I scale it I do not trust it.
We have had our rig in mid 20 degree temperatures to almost 100 degrees overnight with the A/C on all evening.
Not sure I would go there in the Terranova. "4 season" or not. CHOICES
CHEERS!!
ReluctantTraveler
Active member
Interesting build. It is smaller for sure, which again is a choice. Lighter materials, less "stuff" Would have to see one in person.
Not sure what the Terranova would weigh fully loaded for a trip of a few weeks. Some of their numbers might work.
11,000 LBS dry. Add 56 gallons of water, all the food, gear and fuel you could pile on and then...maybe 12,250 LBS
Then add 4 people. I do not trust most weight claims, been around the RV industry way too long. Until I scale it I do not trust it.
We have had our rig in mid 20 degree temperatures to almost 100 degrees overnight with the A/C on all evening.
Not sure I would go there in the Terranova. "4 season" or not. CHOICES
CHEERS!!
Always! The EarthCruiser pop-tops seem to be far warmer than your typical one (triple layer and NOT canvas), based on what I've seen from owner videos on YT. But yea, you're absolutely trading "stuff" for a smaller size.
This whole process has been a brain twisting exercise!
@ReluctantTraveler - as @StenchRV mentioned, the width is noticeable between the camper bodies. You can barely see the difference when looking at the box-to-cab area. The four of us were much more comfortable just hanging out in theirs than ours. On the road, the difference would be hard to notice. On the trail, it might be a bigger deal but probably not based on how you describe your travel objectives. Really worth considering since you're wanting to maximize space w/o adding a ton of length.