Payload Tolerances: how close to max is too much?

[ReluctantTraveler]

@ReluctantTraveler - as @StenchRV mentioned, the width is noticeable between the camper bodies. You can barely see the difference when looking at the box-to-cab area. The four of us were much more comfortable just hanging out in theirs than ours. On the road, the difference would be hard to notice. On the trail, it might be a bigger deal but probably not based on how you describe your travel objectives. Really worth considering since you're wanting to maximize space w/o adding a ton of length.

Oh no doubt, that extra width on the box matters a LOT when you've only got 100 sq ft or so to live in!

 

[andy_b]

Oh no doubt, that extra width on the box matters a LOT when you've only got 100 sq ft or so to live in!

A point about the width of the camper body: If you decide to go with an off the shelf TC camper (or a custom build with the narrower width of a SRW 350) and then decide to upgrade to a larger capacity truck, your camper is going to be "too small" on the back of the 550/5500 and that width will have to be made up by some sort of fender or similar. Since you're still in the planning stages, this is something else to consider.

Also, if OAT won't do a custom build, this is another great reason to work with a Canadian builder that has lower labor (labour?) costs and no tariff on Chinese made products.

 

[ReluctantTraveler]

A point about the width of the camper body: If you decide to go with an off the shelf TC camper (or a custom build with the narrower width of a SRW 350) and then decide to upgrade to a larger capacity truck, your camper is going to be "too small" on the back of the 550/5500 and that width will have to be made up by some sort of fender or similar. Since you're still in the planning stages, this is something else to consider.

Also, if OAT won't do a custom build, this is another great reason to work with a Canadian builder that has lower labor (labour?) costs and no tariff on Chinese made products.

My understanding is that it's less OAT and more that TC has decided they're focusing on their lineup of 6-8 models for a variety of business and supply chain reasons.

I suspect that when we're ready to actually do this, I should "do it right" and build out on an F-550 chassis with the wider, longer box.

 

[andy_b]

My understanding is that it's less OAT and more that TC has decided they're focusing on their lineup of 6-8 models for a variety of business and supply chain reasons.

I suspect that when we're ready to actually do this, I should "do it right" and build out on an F-550 chassis with the wider, longer box.

That is weird; @Victorian said the opposite in another recent thread. Anyhow, if that is the case, then I would work with another vendor as a custom box is your best bet for your needs.

 

[Victorian]

A point about the width of the camper body: If you decide to go with an off the shelf TC camper (or a custom build with the narrower width of a SRW 350) and then decide to upgrade to a larger capacity truck, your camper is going to be "too small" on the back of the 550/5500 and that width will have to be made up by some sort of fender or similar. Since you're still in the planning stages, this is something else to consider.

Also, if OAT won't do a custom build, this is another great reason to work with a Canadian builder that has lower labor (labour?) costs and no tariff on Chinese made products.

The high tariffs only apply to imports into the USA. But aside from that, they are build into the price and most times we are still much cheaper than our competitors. General shop costs in Canada are the same as in the USA.... Only difference and maybe advantage is the favourable exchange rate for US customers. Other then that, not much difference.
I would recommend go with a builder you trust and can work within your budget.

 

[ReluctantTraveler]

The high tariffs only apply to imports into the USA. But aside from that, they are build into the price and most times we are still much cheaper than our competitors. General shop costs in Canada are the same as in the USA.... Only difference and maybe advantage is the favourable exchange rate for US customers. Other then that, not much difference.
I would recommend go with a builder you trust and can work within your budget.

Is it true that you're no longer doing custom box sizes, or what that a miscommunication with the builder?

 

[Victorian]

That is weird; @Victorian said the opposite in another recent thread. Anyhow, if that is the case, then I would work with another vendor as a custom box is your best bet for your needs.

All of our builders/partners can offer true custom builds. It's up to them to accept them or not. TC can supply them with what ever they need.

 

[ReluctantTraveler]

All of our builders/partners can offer true custom builds. It's up to them to accept them or not. TC can supply them with what ever they need.

Gotcha... that's good to know, and different from what was communicated to me.

 

[andy_b]

The high tariffs only apply to imports into the USA. But aside from that, they are build into the price and most times we are still much cheaper than our competitors. General shop costs in Canada are the same as in the USA.... Only difference and maybe advantage is the favourable exchange rate for US customers. Other then that, not much difference.
I would recommend go with a builder you trust and can work within your budget.

I would disagree that there is “not much difference.”

The exchange rate makes Canadian labor rates and shop costs 25% cheaper (as of 1/30/24). Add that to the tariff assigned to a custom box (another 25%) and it can quickly add up. Finally, I’m not sure what shipping costs are doing these days, but the shipping costs at the time I bought our TC were wild. All told, that meant that getting a custom TC camper body built in the US (again, at that time, our option was OAT) was substantially more than buying Canadian. We also benefitted from our builder’s CAD skills (again, at CAD rates).

To be clear, I agree that TC camper bodies have a lot more value than most other composite builders I’ve seen. It is also great to hear that you guys are still supporting custom camper bodies.

I get that not everyone can drive up to the Great White North, but Total Composites has built out a pretty good network of Canadian builders so I think this is a viable option. I feel that people who may be in the market should be aware of this nuance.

 

[ReluctantTraveler]

I would disagree that there is “not much difference.”

The exchange rate makes Canadian labor rates and shop costs 25% cheaper (as of 1/30/24). Add that to the tariff assigned to a custom box (another 25%) and it can quickly add up. Finally, I’m not sure what shipping costs are doing these days, but the shipping costs at the time I bought our TC were wild. All told, that meant that getting a custom TC camper body built in the US (again, at that time, our option was OAT) was substantially more than buying Canadian. We also benefitted from our builder’s CAD skills (again, at CAD rates).

To be clear, I agree that TC camper bodies have a lot more value than most other composite builders I’ve seen. It is also great to hear that you guys are still supporting custom camper bodies.

I get that not everyone can drive up to the Great White North, but Total Composites has built out a pretty good network of Canadian builders so I think this is a viable option. I feel that people who may be in the market should be aware of this nuance.

This changes the equation for me a lot, actually!

They have a few build partners in Quebec that are actually closer to me than the closest US build partner! REALLY happy you mentioned this, Andy!

 

[mog]

I’m not sure what shipping costs are doing these days, but the shipping costs at the time I bought our TC were wild.

Shipping container prices on the Med-Suez-Red Sea and onwards to China have gone up from $2,400 for a 40-foot container (UK to Shanghai) to as high as $10,000 since the start of the Houthi 'interference'. As TC panels are "made with Germany materials" that certainly affects the cost of raw materials going to China for manufacturing. Shipping from China to the west coast of North America has actually gone down, due to decreased demand.

 

[mog]

I'm realizing a big part of my challenge in finding trucks has been that my design called for a very specific truck:

1. Crew Cab (family of 4).
2. 4WD (no off-roading planned, but I live in snow country and want to use it as a snowboard home base and maybe even take it on a beach if possible).
3. Extra-long wheelbase, because I wanted to maximize the habitat size. Of these three criteria, item 1 + 3 seems to be the hard-to-find combo.

@ReluctantTraveler have you seen this? LINK

 

[ReluctantTraveler]

@ReluctantTraveler have you seen this? LINK

View attachment 818114

I actually forgot that site exists, thanks!

The whole "buy this thing site unseen" aspect of GovDeals makes me uneasy, TBH. An old ambulance or brush truck would be perfect, though.

 

[1000arms]

I just saw someone else mention the F-350/3500 DRW option in another thread, too, and I think it's really viable!

It adds an extra 1,000-1,500 lbs to the payload capacity, and I believe is a bit narrower than the F-550/5500?

I didn't realize they don't run 19" tires. Another win, IMO. I suppose you could always single them down later if you wanted to.

That's a great suggestion! Thanks!

I think the best payload of a current Ford 4x4 DRW CCLB F-350 with the gas 7.3L “Godzilla” engine is about 6,600 pounds. It has a fully boxed frame. Please note that 2017+ F-350s can have much better payloads than older one ton pickup trucks.

The current DRW 17” rims use tires that can be aired down, but they might rub depending on amount of airing down and the space between the rims when bolted to the rear axle. ... You might consider ordering the F-350 you want, then having a couple of rims made to replace the outside rims of the DRW. This would increase stresses on the rear axle, but so would going to large super-singles. The truck would be mostly stock, but capable of being aired way down.

The 450 and 550 truck rims shouldn’t be aired down. They hold the tires on differently than the 17” rims. The tires can catastrophically fail after being aired down and up.

The turning radius of the 450/550 chassis cab trucks is quite useful, as is the greater payloads compared to the F-350, but the F-350 tires with 17” rims can be aired down, and there are many more to choose from.

Keep in mind that beaches vary, but, as a general rule, the lighter the vehicle the better.

One of the cheaper ways to build your camper-truck, IF you can keep the weight down enough to be able to use a 2017+ F-350 4x4 DRW CCLB 7.3L gas engine pickup truck, would be to order such a truck, remove the pickup bed, install a Duramag (or Bowen) flatbed, then build your camper on it, especially if you use thin plywood, wood, and foam. ... The 2017+ F-350 pickup’s fully-boxed frame would help minimize camper flexing.

Even cheaper would be to use the above pickup truck with the original bed. Build a basement for tanks and design an 8’ wide habitat floor that is just above the bed-rails.

Keep the costs down enough and build 2 “pirate” campers, one for summer and one for winter. 😎

With the right Ronco Plastic 50 gallon water tanks and grey tanks, I think you could carry 100 gallons of freshwater and have capacity for 100 gallons of greywater, although you probably don’t want to carry both at the same time, in the basement located in the bed of the pickup truck bed.

Water / Waste Holding Tank - Ronco Plastics

Marine tanks are suitable for all marine plumbing, waste holding, and water supply needs. The tanks are rotationally molded of a seamless one piece, non-corrosive linear polyethylene and meet FDA regulations. Three female NPT (national pipe thread) fittings are provided free of charge...

ronco-plastics.com

I know that you have mentioned a disinterest in a slide-in camper a few times, BUT, I’ll suggest you ponder building your camper to slide in to a pickup truck bed AND I’ll suggest that you ponder building your camper on a pickup-mounted flatbed (or near-flatbed such as the Bowen).

As a note, the water tanks, placed in the basement of slide-in camper would sit a bit lower than on the floor of a flatbed on the same pickup-truck frame (because the flatbed sits above the tires).

The 2017+ F-350 uses different springs than the 2017+ F-350 chassis cab, and would likely give you a better ride.

So, can you keep the weight down enough to use a DRW pickup truck? 😀

Maybe you need to build a camper AND a HTT? (Hood Top Tent) 😎

 

[ReluctantTraveler]

Thanks for all of this, @1000arms! I particularly appreciate the notes about pre/post 2017 trucks and tire differences between the F-350 and F-550.

Having done the math a few times, talking to some folks at Total Composite, and working through what we currently carry in our trailer, the modern F-350 DRW pickup would almost certainly meet our payload need. I had planned to do a bed delete and replace it with an aluminum flatbed.

Going DRW has the added benefit of letting us put a slightly wider habitat on the back.

One thing I wish I could figure out if if the Earth Cruiser Terranova is a super single or an SRW from the factory. And if the latter, how are they keeping it within payload.

As a note, the water tanks, placed in the basement of slide-in camper would sit a bit lower than on the floor of a flatbed on the same pickup-truck frame (because the flatbed sits above the tires).

That's good to know! Didn't realize that!