Real opinions about the Liberty...

phxtoad

Adventurer
Buy a clean CRD Liberty and throw a Dana 30 under the front end then you could stuff some 265/75/16 in there. Maybe an Aussie locker in the rear, I should think that would be a very capable rig.

Do you mean install a solid front D30 axle? To date it hasn't been done on a CRD that I know of, I believe the engine/cradle configuration up front would put a solid axle way too low. Gasser's with the SFA swap need at least 6" of lift to get it under. As for the IFS (gasser anyway, not sure about the CRD), it has a D30 already in it, just with an aluminum housing. That's been the achille's heel if the front end's strength.

I've run 265/75's with a 2 1/2" lift. I downsized to 245/75's only because of the rubbing/stuffing - mostly at the rear end.
 

AZCPP

Adventurer
My wife had a 2005 (bought new) and she rolled it on a dirt road in the desert after it slid out in the rear and the front tire dug into the sand. It did a complete roll and came to rest on the drivers side. After the wrecker flipped it back onto it's wheels you could still open all four doors and close them all! It was totaled but, all three people in the vehicle walked away without injury. She said she felt safe in it and wanted it replaced with another Liberty. So, we bought a new 2006 and had it for three years without a problem. The 2006 would range between 16-20mpg (3.7l. gas). Both were lifted with Rubicon wheels and 245's. The 2006 had "Traction Control" and it works great offroad. This thing impressed me every time we took it offroading! I always called it a "Girl Jeep" but really it is a GREAT vehicle! She has a Nitro now but, it will be replaced soon with a Jeep.
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Viggen

Just here...
Definitely lurk over on LOSTKJS.com and JEEPKJ.com

I've had an '02 gasser for 7 years, 118K. DD with lots of 'wheeling in between. It has served me well.

I'd love to have that CRD engine. I know a few guys with it. However, it'll frag your front and/or rear diff if you get on it and the wheels are stuck. Lot's O torque!

The biggest downside from an expedition style rig standpoint is storage space. But with excellent towing capacity it'll tow a hefty trailer...

Ask any questions you may have.

Todd

Im going to go check out LOST KJ's for more info. I read that there were trans problems with the motor producing too much torque for it to handle so they issued a recall to detune the motor a bit. Ive also heard about the diff problems. Are they really that weak? The Liberty as a whole is an okay package to me but what attracts me to it is the diesel. I like the torque at low revs rather than having to ring out a motor to get the power. The mpg is a plus but not the main selling point.

I cant believe that there are so many weak points in the drivetrain. The D30 is actually a pretty strong and could easily handle power but whats with Jeep and these stupid aluminum center sections? The alloy D44 in the ZJ and now this? Weird
 

JeepinJon

Observer
My wife and I have had a 2005 KJ for 4 years now, and it is a great vehicle. It isn't as good off-road as the JK, but the JK isn't as good on road as the KJ. If I drive conservatively and keep the speed under 70 on the highway I can easilly get 23mpg in the gasser. At first when we got it I was used to a 4.7 V8 WJ, so it took me a while to get used to the lack of power, but I am used ot it now.

It has plenty of room for my wife and I when we take trips to hold all our stuff for a week and our two labs. At the moment we have about 60,000 miles on ours, and it still runs great. There is a bit of engine clater from noisy injectors, but otherwise it has never needed anything other than routine maintenance.
 

MOAK

Adventurer
55k and counting

We have had our CRD since new, a few problems under warranty was taken care of years ago, Pulled a loaded single axe trailer to New Orleans, and back empty,, loaded we got 22mpg @ 70 to 75mpr. On the way home the trailer was empty, and we pulled nearly 27 mpg. Thats pretty good mileage while dragging a box trailer behind you. With no trailer, easy to attain 31mpg on road trips, and around 23 mpg local. One thing,, It must be driven as a diesel should be driven, I talk to lots of complainers about this CRD, and they expect it to operate like a gasser, and it just can't. They are constantly hammering on it, and constantly running the motor way beyond the desired rpm. Ours very rarely sees more that 2500 rpm. We will be operating this CRD for many many years to come.:smiley_drive:
 

tommudd

Explorer
Over 137,000 miles, bought new 9/2004.
Lifted 3.5 to 4 inches for over 107,000 miles now running 265-75-16s .
No problems at all. Wheeled it a lot and none of the problems that some tend to think there is. Wheeled with a lot of TJs/JKs/XJs and they never go anywhere that I can't. As far as flex I'll match most of them. :bike_rider:
Funny a lot of the comments come from people who have very little seat time in them. Driving something for a week shows nothing at all! :coffeedrink:
 

Bugspray

Adventurer
Do you mean install a solid front D30 axle? To date it hasn't been done on a CRD that I know of, I believe the engine/cradle configuration up front would put a solid axle way too low. Gasser's with the SFA swap need at least 6" of lift to get it under. As for the IFS (gasser anyway, not sure about the CRD), it has a D30 already in it, just with an aluminum housing. That's been the achille's heel if the front end's strength.

I've run 265/75's with a 2 1/2" lift. I downsized to 245/75's only because of the rubbing/stuffing - mostly at the rear end.

Thanks for dashing my dreams of a solid front axle CRD on the rocks......is there any remedy for the weaker diffs? I just seems like instead of trying to jam a diesel engine into something with a good drive train (i.e. 4bt FJ80) I thought maybe going the other way might be promising......Ahhhhh well I guess I will just have to wait until 2015 to import an HZJ77
 

phxtoad

Adventurer
In my opinion the front diff is plenty strong - as long as you don't allow any hopping of the front end. Most go PRANG in conditions where the front (or rear) wheels hop and catch. Trying to push larger tires is also a concern. I felt a difference pushing 265's vs. 245's.

If you look over the KJ forum posts since the beginning there really have not been THAT many blown front diff's. Back in '02 / '03, everyone out there was really leary of the IFS 'system', CV's and the front diff combined. I assumed mine all would go at some point. I've only blown one CV half shaft (by hopping), and worn out two other sets. My front diff has never faltered though. I think once everyone got more trail time and learned how to wheel a KJ, the carnage reduced.

The other big front end issue is the upper ball joints. Aftermarket (Jeepin by Al's, etc) upper A-arms solve lift issues associated with the upper ball joints: Lifting will cause A-arm contact with the coils at full droop and tweak the balls (and not in the good way). They end up wearing out fairly quickly. Stock arms have an integral non-serviceable, non-greaseable ball joint and have to be replaced as a whole. Although a recall issue early on, the lowers are fine if you replace them with greasable ones (Moog's etc.). The lower control arms are stout. You can bash them at will.

As far as the rear, the 8.25 is tried and true, but the gearing options are limited to 3.73's (stock) and 4.10's. A friend blew his rear diff in his CRD in Moab some years back. He was on an obstacle and somehow got bothsets of front and rear wheels in ruts at the same time. When he throttled-up, the turbo spooled-up and POP POP. Both the front AND rear diffs blew. The KJ is heavier than you think. Momentum is key. He was stopped and tried to crawl out of it. Backing up and bumping out of the ruts might have worked better.

Getting back to point. A KJ is a solid expedition style rig but not a rock crawler. In stock form (assuming it's got skids) it only lacks ground clearance and better tires. Modified, it opens up nicely to the 'moderate' level of 'wheeling.

Now that I'm contemplating my next vehicle (in a couple years time), I'm having trouble deciding why I shouldn't get another one. The only thing I don't like about the newer models is all the electronic stuff that you can't turn off. I believe those systems work really well at times, but they just don't seem very 'fun'. I like the challenge of a simpler set-up.

These are my dos centavos. :sombrero:
 

Root Moose

Expedition Leader
I supposed you could make a steel center section using a XJ donor axle. It wouldn't be that hard if you can weld and machine parts. You'd have to get shafts made if you can't recycle the IFS shafts. Guys were doing this with Suzuki Sidekicks back in the day. I was going to do it but then decided "this is stupid, solid axle swap time" (which led to "this is stupid, sell all this crap and buy a Jeep").

I'd wonder if it would just move the failure point to the CVs. That said, a CV is trivial to repair versus a center section.
 

Viggen

Just here...
I just seems like instead of trying to jam a diesel engine into something with a good drive train (i.e. 4bt FJ80) I thought maybe going the other way might be promising......

See, I dont even consider the 4bt a good motor for a light duty truck. Its insanely heavy, noisy and very rough. If youve ever seen a video or ridden in one of the converted ones, youd see. Many of the FJ80s that are diesel converted do go back on the market as many people cant deal with the harshness of the motor. Its not meant for a car/ truck so its overly rough, heavy and tall.

The reason why I am interested in something like the Liberty is because it has a proper diesel. Designed and produced to deliver in a car/ truck, not a delivery box truck. Im a little disappointed that the weak points are so many in the Liberty though. That swap does, however, seem pretty cool. The D30 is actually a pretty strong axle with tons of options and its great that someone has figured out a replacement for a huge weak spot. My thing though is cost and benefit. Whats the swap cost and does it come with upgraded CVs or are you stuck with the same limited angle joints?
 

phxtoad

Adventurer
The steel carrier looks like its $1300. That's a bunch of duckets. And it looks like it's for gassers only at this point. It looks like they are creating some beefier half shafts soon, too.

IMO I don't think you'd get that much more articulation in the IFS system as a whole though with these changes (including higher angle limits on the CV's). There just isn't that much travel available with the architecture of the stock system. Upgrades would be stronger, yes. More useful for expedition style wheeling? I dunno. I'd rather spend the money on a winch and try not to push the front end that much.

At any rate, the CRD crowd generally love their rigs. Have you had a chance to test a KJ/KK out yet?
 

LilKJ

Adventurer
I say don't get one unless you are comfortable under the hood of a vehicle... mechanics who have worked on these things (or even know they exist) are not becoming more plentiful.

Mine is worth every penny and hour I've put into it.
 

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