Redtop Optima is close to dead

Ducky's Dad

Explorer
Can you use those when the battery is still in the rig?
Yes. You can charge and desulfate with the battery in the truck and connected. If you get to the point where you want to do a full reconditioning cycle, it is advisable to disconnect the battery from pos and neg cables so it is isolated from the truck's electronics. This is to protect sensitive electronic crap from the voltages generated during reconditioning. Having said that, I have run reconditioning cycles on several vehicles without disconnecting the cables, but not on anything newer than 2005. Ctek makes a DC-DC charger that seems to be well regarded, but I don't have one. I do have a couple of shore power Ctek 7002s that work great on 34/78 batteries.
 

Ducky's Dad

Explorer
He goes on how most alternators cannot charge up the aux battery to it potential
Toyotas are notorious for low charging voltage, usually maxing at about 13.9. That is supposed to be too low for an AGM, but I have a Northstar AGM in my Tundra with a stock charging system and everything seems to be working just fine. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. The advantage of the DC-DC or conditioning chargers is that they will charge at somewhere between 14.7 and 15.6 volts, depending on the charger, and that is what AGMs like. If everything else is in good order, you can probably extend the life of both batteries by running a cycle every few months.
 

rayra

Expedition Leader
Time to change that tray to something universal. What if your battery crapped out in the middle of nowhere and you couldn't get an Optima-shaped replacement?
 

dwh

Tail-End Charlie
Agree, short commute often results in chronic undercharging of aux battery, requiring a regular top off with a shore charger, which can be done with battery in truck and connected.

A DC-DC charger won't help with that; commute time too short. But it will make a difference on long drives.

Which might not mean anything.

It won't make much difference if you topped off with the shore charger before leaving, and it won't make much difference on the drive home where you plan to top off when you get there.

But if you move from place to place and put in a few hours on the road in between, yea it'll make a difference.
 

dwh

Tail-End Charlie
But if you used a cranking battery as a house battery and got seven years out of it...

Then either that was a magic battery, or you made a deal with the devil...

Or your charging system is working fine.
 

Corey

OverCamping Specialist
Yes. You can charge and desulfate with the battery in the truck and connected. If you get to the point where you want to do a full reconditioning cycle, it is advisable to disconnect the battery from pos and neg cables so it is isolated from the truck's electronics. This is to protect sensitive electronic crap from the voltages generated during reconditioning. Having said that, I have run reconditioning cycles on several vehicles without disconnecting the cables, but not on anything newer than 2005. Ctek makes a DC-DC charger that seems to be well regarded, but I don't have one. I do have a couple of shore power Ctek 7002s that work great on 34/78 batteries.
Thanks.
Toyotas are notorious for low charging voltage, usually maxing at about 13.9. That is supposed to be too low for an AGM, but I have a Northstar AGM in my Tundra with a stock charging system and everything seems to be working just fine. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. The advantage of the DC-DC or conditioning chargers is that they will charge at somewhere between 14.7 and 15.6 volts, depending on the charger, and that is what AGMs like. If everything else is in good order, you can probably extend the life of both batteries by running a cycle every few months.
Thanks, and I know the charging system is working fine since it was just tested at the dealership a short time ago.
Time to change that tray to something universal. What if your battery crapped out in the middle of nowhere and you couldn't get an Optima-shaped replacement?
If the new Optima I am getting tomorrow were to crap out on me, I can flip a switch in the cab with my Painless Wiring dual battery kit and the main battery would take over running the fridge and starting the rig.
As I have mentioned in the past, I use to run my old ARB fridge on the starting battery all the time up to 5 days camping with the rig off, but with a Powerfilm 60 watt solar panel hooked up to it.
Agree, short commute often results in chronic undercharging of aux battery, requiring a regular top off with a shore charger, which can be done with battery in truck and connected.

A DC-DC charger won't help with that; commute time too short. But it will make a difference on long drives.

Which might not mean anything.

It won't make much difference if you topped off with the shore charger before leaving, and it won't make much difference on the drive home where you plan to top off when you get there.

But if you move from place to place and put in a few hours on the road in between, yea it'll make a difference.
Thanks.

But if you used a cranking battery as a house battery and got seven years out of it...

Then either that was a magic battery, or you made a deal with the devil...

Or your charging system is working fine.
Yes, the charging system is fine.
Now here is something that might interest you.
As stated before, I usually see both batteries on my dual battery meter in the cab juicing around 13.9v and then floating around 13.4 to 13.6v or so on the commute home.
And, that Australian dual battery meter in the cab may not be entirely accurate.
I should use my Fluke and test both batteries with the rig off, and then with the rig started.

But here is a video I made this morning when getting ready to wax my rig.
The Redtop was saying it was 14.5v on the charge controller of the solar panel, and also inside the cab on that dual battery meter.
Now an hour after taking the solar panel off, it is sitting at 12.4v.

I am pretty confident when camping and having the Renogy 100 watt solar panel hooked up to the new Yellowtop it should be getting some good readings.
Today's reading in the Redtop was with no load on the battery, as the fridge is off right now.
Now over the weekend when I had the Renogy hooked up to the Redtop and the fridge running, the incab meter was reading it was 11.9v, not good.
I think the Redtop was so down not even the solar could bring it up higher when the fridge was running.

What about those Mean Green alternators I use to hear about years ago, that might be a good option too if they make one for the 4.0 Toyota engine?
Or is it still the Toyota wiring that does not allow enough high of a voltage to charge up an aux battery?

 

dwh

Tail-End Charlie
14.5v, 1.4a, would mean the battery is fully charged, fully absorbed, controller should be about to switch to float mode.

Then drops to 12.4v in an hour with no load on it? Serious plate sulfation/corrosion.



It's not the alternator, it's the voltage regulator. Some Toys (maybe all for all I know) have a voltage sense wire that runs to the fusebox or some such.

Something I thought about before, that might work: Stick a diode with a .6 volt drop in that wire. When the voltage regulator sees 13.9v, the bus voltage will actually be at 14.5.
 

Corey

OverCamping Specialist
Ahhhh, I see then, very bad plate in the battery, so it is going out.
Now what about this item for a Toyota?
Easier than doing the diode???

http://www.mechman.com/accessories/...e-voltage-boost-module-for-oval-3-pin-toyota/

IMG_0318__04691.1411251969.1280.1280.png
 

NevadaLover

Forking Icehole

Corey

OverCamping Specialist
Now that's pretty cool, just be careful if you get it to make damn certain you set it right and watch it regularly to be sure it's still functioning correctly so you don't fry any components down system!!
Yes, I would have to monitor the voltages sometimes with the Fluke to make sure the adjustment has not gone haywire.
Ah. Doesn't get any easier than that. And you've got voltmeters so you can diddle it to a perfect fine tune.

If I was running dual AGMs in a Toy, I would absolutely buy that.
I am not sure what type of battery the stock Toyota one is.
But yes, this seems to be very nice, and a member from this thread told me about it earlier.
Pretty much plug and play, and I can handle that, and I keep the Fluke in my cargobox, so it is always ready.
I would just have to set it at the best voltage, and check the starting battery to see what is coming across it, or attach the leads to the alternator?
 

dwh

Tail-End Charlie
Measure at the battery. Diddle it till you see the voltage regulator hit a peak voltage of 14.5v fairly consistently at highway speeds/rpm.

Best if it would hold 14.5v steady, but from your descriptions of how your truck behaves, I would expect some ups and downs.

Shoot for 14.5v peak voltage. You might be able to go higher depending on your cranking battery - the Optima can certainly handle it. But 14.5 is high enough to get it done and any lead-acid battery except gel type can handle 14.5v.
 

Corey

OverCamping Specialist
Measure at the battery. Diddle it till you see the voltage regulator hit a peak voltage of 14.5v fairly consistently at highway speeds/rpm.

Best if it would hold 14.5v steady, but from your descriptions of how your truck behaves, I would expect some ups and downs.

Shoot for 14.5v peak voltage. You might be able to go higher depending on your cranking battery - the Optima can certainly handle it. But 14.5 is high enough to get it done and any lead-acid battery except gel type can handle 14.5v.
Thanks.
Yes, weird how both batteries start out at 14v when I fire it up at first, then it backs down to 13.4+ at both city/freeway speeds.
Both batteries however can be off a few from each other.
However I have experimented by flipping the toggle for the Painless dual battery kit to emergency jumpstart mode where it sends voltage from the Optima back to the stock battery like if you had to jump start a dead stock battery, and both voltages mirror each other then.

I am going to order that device tomorrow, and will scout out where my present cable is.
Hopefully I have good access to it, and will not have to have the dealer do it.
 

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