Redtop Optima is close to dead

[Ducky's Dad]

Then drops to 12.4v in an hour with no load on it? Serious plate sulfation/corrosion.

Yes!

That Mechman gizmo has been talked about in several forums, and the Toy Boys seem to like it.

The Painless Performance isolators are seriously underappreciated. I have them in two trucks, one for almost twenty years and the other for twelve years, and would not do a dual battery system any other way. If you set the switch so that the red light is on, you can do a shore power charge or desulfation on all batteries at the same time. Just set the switch, connect charger leads to either battery, and walk away (at least with my Cteks).

 

[dwh]

However I have experimented by flipping the toggle for the Painless dual battery kit to emergency jumpstart mode where it sends voltage from the Optima back to the stock battery like if you had to jump start a dead stock battery, and both voltages mirror each other then.

You did that with the engine running? Or not?

 

[Ducky's Dad]

Quote Originally Posted by Corey View Post
However I have experimented by flipping the toggle for the Painless dual battery kit to emergency jumpstart mode where it sends voltage from the Optima back to the stock battery like if you had to jump start a dead stock battery, and both voltages mirror each other then.

You did that with the engine running? Or not?

If it's the red light position, meters will see the system as one big battery.

 

[dwh]

If it's the red light position, meters will see the system as one big battery.

Yes, but he described seeing different voltages. Then flipped the switch and saw the same voltage at both batteries.

If the engine was off (solenoid not engaged) when he did that, no problem.

But if the engine was on, the solenoid should already have been engaged and flipping the switch shouldn't change anything.

 

[Corey]

Yes!

That Mechman gizmo has been talked about in several forums, and the Toy Boys seem to like it.

The Painless Performance isolators are seriously underappreciated. I have them in two trucks, one for almost twenty years and the other for twelve years, and would not do a dual battery system any other way. If you set the switch so that the red light is on, you can do a shore power charge or desulfation on all batteries at the same time. Just set the switch, connect charger leads to either battery, and walk away (at least with my Cteks).

My green light burned out years ago for the normal position when you want both batteries to charge when the ignition is on.

You did that with the engine running? Or not?

Both ways...I think.

If it's the red light position, meters will see the system as one big battery.

Yes indeed.

Yes, but he described seeing different voltages. Then flipped the switch and saw the same voltage at both batteries.

If the engine was off (solenoid not engaged) when he did that, no problem.

But if the engine was on, the solenoid should already have been engaged and flipping the switch shouldn't change anything.

The way the Painless system is designed, the solenoid will click and turn on when you move it to the red position as one big battery, even with the engine/ignition switch off.
The side effect is if you leave it in the red position, the light for it stays on all the time, even with the engine off.
And the lights can get hot, as back then they did not use cool running LEDs.

But it is a simple system that just works.

Now that gizmo I want to buy, it is just a variable resister and does the same thing you were describing earlier about wiring in a single resistor to up the voltage?

 

[Corey]

PS, they make a more expensive one that actually has the voltage readout on it.
AVBM II with in car controller for Oval 3 pin Toyota

This might be even a better option?

 

[dwh]

The way the Painless system is designed, the solenoid will click and turn on when you move it to the red position as one big battery, even with the engine/ignition switch off.

I understand that, but you may be missing my point.

If the engine was running (ign on), then the batteries should have already been tied into one big battery. Flipping the switch to tie them into one big battery at that point should do nothing (except light up the switch), because they should already be tied into one big battery.

Now that gizmo I want to buy, it is just a variable resister and does the same thing you were describing earlier about wiring in a single resistor to up the voltage?

Appears to be. I didn't see anything on their site giving an exact description though. You can call 'em and ask.

 

[dwh]

PS, they make a more expensive one that actually has the voltage readout on it.
AVBM II with in car controller for Oval 3 pin Toyota

This might be even a better option?

Well...

It's almost double the price...but you collect PRS guitars so you can afford it.

It reads the voltage at the alternator, which may or may not be the same as the voltage at the battery...but you've got that Aussie double voltage meter to read the battery voltage, so having another meter to read the alternator voltage might be handy.

You're a gadget freak.


Go for it.

 

[DiploStrat]

...but you collect PRS guitars so you can afford it.

Hey! I like PRS guitars. Support local industry. ;-)

 

[Corey]

I understand that, but you may be missing my point.

If the engine was running (ign on), then the batteries should have already been tied into one big battery. Flipping the switch to tie them into one big battery at that point should do nothing (except light up the switch), because they should already be tied into one big battery.

Appears to be. I didn't see anything on their site giving an exact description though. You can call 'em and ask.

I will get a hold of them sometime.
Now the off raod shop I deal with that installed my ARB lights and Rigid rock lights is telling me to not mess with the system, that the under 14v is plenty to charge the Optima up.
I am still going to get one of those devices though, as I have heard from too many sources that the output from Toyota is too weak to handle charging two batteries.

Well...

It's almost double the price...but you collect PRS guitars so you can afford it.

It reads the voltage at the alternator, which may or may not be the same as the voltage at the battery...but you've got that Aussie double voltage meter to read the battery voltage, so having another meter to read the alternator voltage might be handy.

You're a gadget freak.

Go for it.

I not only collect them, I play 'em daily.
Keep one at work to play in the office with a LOUD amp

Hey! I like PRS guitars. Support local industry. ;-)

You got that right, but only two of mine are from the core factory in Stevensville, the rest are their SE line, but still very nice.
I would put any of my SE line up against a Gibson, in fact I own a 2012 '61 Gibson SG Reissue, and any of the SEs blow it out of the water.

Went in for my tire rotation this morning, and they had not got the Yellowtop in yet, but it will arrive today.
Told them to hold onto it, and I may get it put in tomorrow, or Friday as I have an early appointment elsewhere.

 

[Ducky's Dad]

I am still going to get one of those devices though, as I have heard from too many sources that the output from Toyota is too weak to handle charging two batteries.

The issue not that the alternator output is "too weak" to charge two batteries, but that the voltage is too low to keep some AGMs happy. My old GMC is running a stock 105amp alternator and it has been charging pairs of Optima and Odyssey 34/78s for 20 years. Those batteries never see a shore power recharge or reconditioning unless i do something stupid. It's the voltage that can be a problem on the Toys, not the amperage. This would not be the case if you were running an Odyssey 31, which needs both high voltage and high amperage.

 

[teotwaki]

I am not sure what type of battery the stock Toyota one is.

The stock Panasonic batteries were wet cells. The one in my 2005 4Runner lasted seemingly forever. I'll have to look at my records but way beyond the usual 3 years for American made batteries.

 

[Corey]

The issue not that the alternator output is "too weak" to charge two batteries, but that the voltage is too low to keep some AGMs happy. My old GMC is running a stock 105amp alternator and it has been charging pairs of Optima and Odyssey 34/78s for 20 years. Those batteries never see a shore power recharge or reconditioning unless i do something stupid. It's the voltage that can be a problem on the Toys, not the amperage. This would not be the case if you were running an Odyssey 31, which needs both high voltage and high amperage.

That is kind of what I meant when I responded.

The stock Panasonic batteries were wet cells. The one in my 2005 4Runner lasted seemingly forever. I'll have to look at my records but way beyond the usual 3 years for American made batteries.

I knew the stock one was a Panasonic, mine went bad a few years back, and I am on a newer Toyota battery.
I think I got 8 years out of the Panasonic one.
I even had a nice battery tiedown with the YotaTech logo on it made by that guy in Canada who sells stuff over at fjcruiserforums site.
Too bad it would not work with the new Toyota battery, different shape.

I emailed Mech Man about that device, and my alternator is a 4 pin, not 3.
Here is what he said:

Hello,
Your vehicle is 4 pin, it will allow you to adjust the charge point, but it will not stop voltage drop from load.

I take it what he means by the end is that I will see a voltage drop with the fridge running, well that would be normal correct?
What I want to see is 14.5v coming in when driving, and the fridge is off, or perhaps on, but in the resting mode from already being at the desired temp.
There is no other load on the aux. battery unless I am running the ARB twin air compressor, or the Yaesu.

 

[teotwaki]

I subscribe to a YouTube channel from Australia that sells products under the name "Kick @ss Products."
They sell solar, fridges, and dual battery stuff.
However most of their dual batteries are like the ArkPak where they are in a case with USB ports, 12v ports, Anderson plugs, etc.
But you wire it up still to your starting battery, and you use a thing he refers to as a DC DC Charger.
He goes on how most alternators cannot charge up the aux battery to it potential, hence why they sell the DC DC Charger that gets wired into the system..
https://www.youtube.com/user/AustralianDirect

The CTEK 250S Dual is a DC-DC charger with a built-in solar charge controller

https://www.amazon.com/CTEK-56-677-Automatic-Battery-Charger/dp/B005LBCVL4

 

[aukaiiki]

Corey, have you thought about using Dirty Parts TOYOTA ALTERNATOR VOLTAGE BOOSTER to keep both batteries charged?

I use this on my 2007 FJ Cruiser with a Dirty Parts dual battery setup - Stock Toyota starting battery and a Sears AGM Deep Cycle battery as my house battery.

I have been using this setup for the last 3 years without a hitch. The house battery runs my ARB 50Qt frig/freezer, seat heats, 4 extra USB ports, 5Gal Jerry Can water pump and a newly installed ARB air compressor.