Rover Warrior.... LR3 Build engagement pics
- Thread starter MontyMog
- Start date
DiscoNels
Adventurer
Thanks a lot, I fell out of my chair and hit my head! J/K :ylsmoke:
jerdog53
Explorer
I'd like to see what you did.
JWest, I haven't been reading ExPo recently and just stumbled across your battery install. Coincidentally just this weekend I was looking at my stock group 94 battery (rare size; hard to find) and a spare group 31 battery I had in my shop van (ultra-common...I probably install a dozen a year) and thinking hmmmmm......that looks like it would fit pretty easily....
.
Then I see you already put a group 31 in your LR3. Waddayaknow?
.
I haven't removed my battery to get a good look yet, but from what I can tell it looks like all I'll have to do to get a group 31 in will be build a new hold-down. And as you pointed out, you can get far more power both in CCA and RC or AH in the group 31 size. Not to mention once it's in you can find one almost anywhere if the need should arise later. Or you can drop in a group 27 or even a 24 in a pinch.
.
Am I about right in my assumption regarding mods to the stock box/hold down? Or did it require more than that? Either way, it looks pretty straight forward at first glance.
.
Now if only Sears would run a sale on their DieHard Platinum aka-Odyssey I don't think I could resist.
.
Then I see you already put a group 31 in your LR3. Waddayaknow?
.
I haven't removed my battery to get a good look yet, but from what I can tell it looks like all I'll have to do to get a group 31 in will be build a new hold-down. And as you pointed out, you can get far more power both in CCA and RC or AH in the group 31 size. Not to mention once it's in you can find one almost anywhere if the need should arise later. Or you can drop in a group 27 or even a 24 in a pinch.
.
Am I about right in my assumption regarding mods to the stock box/hold down? Or did it require more than that? Either way, it looks pretty straight forward at first glance.
.
Now if only Sears would run a sale on their DieHard Platinum aka-Odyssey I don't think I could resist.
Jwestpro
Explorer
Don.
The trick was to be careful with the height as the hood rests right at the tolerance point so you can't put anything under it that I recall.
You cannot get that battery in the 2nd location without cutting away the battery box in the front and relocating the little item that's in front of the box. For example, the factory box lid would not fully cover the battery any more thus it is gone.
The other cool thing to do though is replace the starter battery with a better one with more reserve like the 1350.
You also have to be mindful of properly charging these as they are not as forgiving on the charge system as other designs. I just ordered a 40A charger to be sure I can always top these off if it sits for a while.
The trick was to be careful with the height as the hood rests right at the tolerance point so you can't put anything under it that I recall.
You cannot get that battery in the 2nd location without cutting away the battery box in the front and relocating the little item that's in front of the box. For example, the factory box lid would not fully cover the battery any more thus it is gone.
The other cool thing to do though is replace the starter battery with a better one with more reserve like the 1350.
You also have to be mindful of properly charging these as they are not as forgiving on the charge system as other designs. I just ordered a 40A charger to be sure I can always top these off if it sits for a while.
As a follow-up to my own question, I went ahead and picked up a Diehard platinum group 31 battery. I just spent about 6 hours making it fit - I would not recommend it, but it can be done. Height is the problem - ended up cutting out the bottom of the plastic battery tray but that only gained me about 1/4". My worry is contact between the positive terminal and the hood. I pulled the hood liner down and of course the positive lines right up with one of the hood braces. I took a pair of sheers and trimmed it back, then glued a piece of old rubber truck bed mat to the area. I also put a piece of plastic over the top of the positive post. My down and dirt measurements say I have less than an inch of clearance, so I'm not taking chances. I also made a new ground cable and had to trim the backside of the positive cable in-line fuse as the Diehard posts are just slightly further in from the edge of the battery. Also had to make a new hold down bracket. So yeah, it can be done but it's not easy.
Jwestpro
Explorer
Interesting, the 2150 fits just fine without any issue against the hood pad. Maybe it's slightly shorter. I also wonder about the layout of the + & -. Mine don't have any issues like you mentioned.
So, I highly "recommend" doing it but with this battery
I do remember taking measurements and researching for the maximum battery possible into that spot. Not all group 31 are exactly identical in specs.
You all might find this interesting from ih8mud, by a LC guy :
( http://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/batt...mation.610857/)
"So it is getting time for me to replace the battery in my truck and as part of that, I have been doing some research about batteries. When I say some, I should clarify it as the type of research you do when you are in a foot cast and it is a pain to get around anywhere, so you lay on your back and read a bunch. Rather than let it go to waste, I figured, why not put my lost time to use. So here it goes.
What battery size comes in our trucks?
Group 24F or 27F depending on the year. Both fit. Group 35 is a common aftermarket replacement that is smaller than both the 24f and 27f.
What other batteries fit in our trucks?
Group 34R with a spacer plate underneath, Group 65 (wrong terminal orientation and requires moving the wires and a better hold down clamp), Group 34M (terminal reversed), Group 31M (tight fit but fits with minor work).
What brand of battery is the best?
That is like asking what the best dinner is. There are three major manufactures of batteries in the U.S., Johnson Controls, Exide, and Eastern-Penn (Deka), which are then labeled by different distributors/retailers. (Note that Johnson Controls has moved most of their production to Mexico). There are also several small manufactures, the best known one of which is Enersys, the manufacture of the Odyssey brand Absorbed Gas Mat (AGM) batteries. A newer manufacture of AGM Batteries is Northstar, which are becoming more available. Some models of Odyssey are also relabeled as the Sears Die Hard Platinum. If is is a Die Hard Platinum, it is an Odyssey.
Who makes my battery:
Sears- Diehard: Lead Acid- Johnson Controls, Platinum AGM- Odyssey, Gold Advanced AGM- Eastern- Penn.
Interstate- Johnson Controls.
Walmart Everstart- Johnson Controls (Exide Contract Cancelled).
Autozone Duralast- Lead Acid- Johnson Controls, AGM- East-Penn.
Pep Boys (including Bosch)- As of Aug 2012 Exide
Napa- Lead Acid- Johnson Controls; AGM- East-Penn.
Optima- Johnson Controls.
Varta AGM- Fall 2012- Johnson Controls in a new US plant.
Costco-Johnson Controls.
Northstar- Northstar and also distributed by Batteries Plus as the X2Power and Exide under the Northstar label.
Duracell- East Penn (Deka)
Rayovac (Batteries Plus)- Lead Acid- Johnson Controls; AGM- East Penn (Deka)
Deka- East Penn
What is the difference between a lead acid and AGM battery?
A lead acid battery (traditional) uses liquid mix of acid and water that submerges the battery plates. An AGM (Absorbed Gas Mat) battery uses a membrane that suspends the acid mixture. The advantages of an AGM battery are they produce no gasses unless overcharged, are totally sealed so they don't evaporate, and the big one is they can handle more deep discharges. Typically an AGM battery can handle twice as many discharges to 50% of capacity as a standard lead acid battery. Additionally, AGM batteries have lower internal resistance so they can provide more instant current.
For those that want a better understanding of AGM batteries, here are a few links that provide excellent technical explanations of Lead Acid v. AGM:
http://www.odysseybatteries.com/file...1_0411_000.pdf
http://www.showmetheparts.com/BIN/documents/DEKA/Valve Regulated Batteries (VRLA).pdf
http://www.lifelinebatteries.com/manual.pdf
Should I pay extra for an AGM Battery?
It depends. If you are going to be winching, camping where you draw down the battery a lot, or have other special needs, then the extra cost is potentially worth it. For regular starting, they don't serve much purpose in these trucks.
It is worth noting that AGM's are being used more and more in new cars which put much higher draws on batteries while sitting and before starting. As a result many new cars will draw down the battery deeper than older cars and the extra cycle life of an AGM helps.
Who makes AGM batteries?
There are three large AGM manufactures- Odyssey, East-Penn- Deka Intimidator, and Optima (Johnson Controls). It is worth noting that the first two are U.S. manufactured, Optimas are now manufactured in Mexico and there have been many complaints of quality since production for the Optimas was moved.
The market is changing rapidly for AGM's with demand increasing new products are being released. Northstar, a Swedish company is pushing distribution in the U.S. (batteries are manufactured in the U.S.), distributing batteries directly as Northstar, through Exide as Nothstar, and (Shh) through batteries plus as the X2Power. Johnson Controls announced in July 2012 that they will start producing flat plate AGM batteries (as opposed to the Exide Orbirtal) in the U.S.. The new batteries will be produced in a new U.S. plant capable of producing 6 million AGM batteries a year. It is unclear if they will be under the Varta name or another brand.
Do I need to take special care of an AGM battery?
No. The only caution that needs to be exercised is if you use a battery charger. In that case, you must use one that has a specific AGM charge mode to prevent overcharging. AGM batteries are very sensitive to being overcharged. Also, unlike lead acid batteries, a deeply discharged AGM battery may need a larger charger to get the charge process started.
Does an AGM Battery have a different voltage than a lead acid battery?
Slightly. The resting voltage of a fully charged lead acid battery is approximately 12.7 volts. A fully charged AGM battery will have a resting voltage of 12.8-12.9 volts.
Is my current alternator/voltage regulator compatible with an AGM battery?
Yes. As set forth in the Deka whitepaper on AGM batteries, this maximum voltage is between 13.9 volts for temps over 120f and 15.4 volts for temperatures under 40f. These voltage limits are very close to typical lead acid batteries. Unless there is something wrong with your alternator, it will not harm an AGM battery, in which case it would almost certainly have also damaged a traditional lead acid battery.
It is worth noting that some newer cars (specifically BMW's in the last 10 years) actually have a programmable alternator. When you replace the battery in these cars, you set the type of battery (lead acid or AGM) and reserve capacity. The charging system then tracks the age and type of battery and its charging of it to maximize battery life. This combined with the fact that BMW places batteries under the seat or in the trunk lead to regular reports of batteries lasting about 6 years.
What specs should I look for in a battery?
Three- Warranty, Cold Cranking Amps (CCA), and Reserve Capacity.
Cold Cranking Amps tell you the current a battery will put out for 30 seconds at 0F without dropping below 7.2 volts. Don't get too hung up on this number for the 80, the factory batteries were in the 450-625CCA range depending on the market.
Reserve Capacity- This tells you the number of minutes at 80F the battery can put out 25 amps before it is drawn down to 10.5 volts. The higher the number, the longer you can run accessories and still expect your vehicle to start. Personally, I put much more importance on this number than CCA.
How long should my battery last?
It depends. Heat kills batteries. For every 22F above 77F you can expect your battery to last half as long. Many people are mistaken that cold kills batteries. This incorrect. What will often happen is the heat will cause a decrease in capacity which then shows up when it gets cold and extra demand is put on the battery. If your battery has removable caps, check it once in a while to make sure there is sufficient water, especially if you live in a hot climate.
Sears has some great charts in their faq that give an estimate of how long batteries last in different parts of the U.S. I have attached the photos from the chart at the end of this.
How often should I replace my battery:
I agree with Sears on this which says: "Even if your battery appears fine, you should replace it before the 4th winter season of use. Cold temperatures can reduce your battery's ability to perform at its peak." Modern batteries don't slowly die, they just fail to work one day leaving you stranded. A failing battery also puts more stress on an alternator which can cause premature failure. I replace my batteries every four years, trying to stretch an extra year to save $20-40 on the life of the battery isn't worth it to me.
Environmental/Nationalistic/Religious Comments (I have put these here in the interest of full disclosure because some of the below information is important to people in their purchase decisions)
Note that the majority, if not all of Johnson Controls lead acid batteries (which include Interstate, Die Hard, Duralast, etc.) are now made in Mexico. While I personally don't have an issue with foreign products, I do have concerns that there have been articles concerning lead pollution (and the resulting harm to workers and their families) from improper recycling near these plants.
Exide only has plants in the U.S., so all of their batteries are U.S. made. They also state that they do not export used batteries to Mexico and perform all recycling in the U.S.
If it says East-Penn, it is made in the U.S.
For those that wish to support a Christian focused distributor (I am Jewish so I have no stake in the game), Interstate is privately owned fundamental Christian company that supports Christian organizations."
So, I highly "recommend" doing it but with this battery
I do remember taking measurements and researching for the maximum battery possible into that spot. Not all group 31 are exactly identical in specs.You all might find this interesting from ih8mud, by a LC guy :
( http://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/batt...mation.610857/)
"So it is getting time for me to replace the battery in my truck and as part of that, I have been doing some research about batteries. When I say some, I should clarify it as the type of research you do when you are in a foot cast and it is a pain to get around anywhere, so you lay on your back and read a bunch. Rather than let it go to waste, I figured, why not put my lost time to use. So here it goes.
What battery size comes in our trucks?
Group 24F or 27F depending on the year. Both fit. Group 35 is a common aftermarket replacement that is smaller than both the 24f and 27f.
What other batteries fit in our trucks?
Group 34R with a spacer plate underneath, Group 65 (wrong terminal orientation and requires moving the wires and a better hold down clamp), Group 34M (terminal reversed), Group 31M (tight fit but fits with minor work).
What brand of battery is the best?
That is like asking what the best dinner is. There are three major manufactures of batteries in the U.S., Johnson Controls, Exide, and Eastern-Penn (Deka), which are then labeled by different distributors/retailers. (Note that Johnson Controls has moved most of their production to Mexico). There are also several small manufactures, the best known one of which is Enersys, the manufacture of the Odyssey brand Absorbed Gas Mat (AGM) batteries. A newer manufacture of AGM Batteries is Northstar, which are becoming more available. Some models of Odyssey are also relabeled as the Sears Die Hard Platinum. If is is a Die Hard Platinum, it is an Odyssey.
Who makes my battery:
Sears- Diehard: Lead Acid- Johnson Controls, Platinum AGM- Odyssey, Gold Advanced AGM- Eastern- Penn.
Interstate- Johnson Controls.
Walmart Everstart- Johnson Controls (Exide Contract Cancelled).
Autozone Duralast- Lead Acid- Johnson Controls, AGM- East-Penn.
Pep Boys (including Bosch)- As of Aug 2012 Exide
Napa- Lead Acid- Johnson Controls; AGM- East-Penn.
Optima- Johnson Controls.
Varta AGM- Fall 2012- Johnson Controls in a new US plant.
Costco-Johnson Controls.
Northstar- Northstar and also distributed by Batteries Plus as the X2Power and Exide under the Northstar label.
Duracell- East Penn (Deka)
Rayovac (Batteries Plus)- Lead Acid- Johnson Controls; AGM- East Penn (Deka)
Deka- East Penn
What is the difference between a lead acid and AGM battery?
A lead acid battery (traditional) uses liquid mix of acid and water that submerges the battery plates. An AGM (Absorbed Gas Mat) battery uses a membrane that suspends the acid mixture. The advantages of an AGM battery are they produce no gasses unless overcharged, are totally sealed so they don't evaporate, and the big one is they can handle more deep discharges. Typically an AGM battery can handle twice as many discharges to 50% of capacity as a standard lead acid battery. Additionally, AGM batteries have lower internal resistance so they can provide more instant current.
For those that want a better understanding of AGM batteries, here are a few links that provide excellent technical explanations of Lead Acid v. AGM:
http://www.odysseybatteries.com/file...1_0411_000.pdf
http://www.showmetheparts.com/BIN/documents/DEKA/Valve Regulated Batteries (VRLA).pdf
http://www.lifelinebatteries.com/manual.pdf
Should I pay extra for an AGM Battery?
It depends. If you are going to be winching, camping where you draw down the battery a lot, or have other special needs, then the extra cost is potentially worth it. For regular starting, they don't serve much purpose in these trucks.
It is worth noting that AGM's are being used more and more in new cars which put much higher draws on batteries while sitting and before starting. As a result many new cars will draw down the battery deeper than older cars and the extra cycle life of an AGM helps.
Who makes AGM batteries?
There are three large AGM manufactures- Odyssey, East-Penn- Deka Intimidator, and Optima (Johnson Controls). It is worth noting that the first two are U.S. manufactured, Optimas are now manufactured in Mexico and there have been many complaints of quality since production for the Optimas was moved.
The market is changing rapidly for AGM's with demand increasing new products are being released. Northstar, a Swedish company is pushing distribution in the U.S. (batteries are manufactured in the U.S.), distributing batteries directly as Northstar, through Exide as Nothstar, and (Shh) through batteries plus as the X2Power. Johnson Controls announced in July 2012 that they will start producing flat plate AGM batteries (as opposed to the Exide Orbirtal) in the U.S.. The new batteries will be produced in a new U.S. plant capable of producing 6 million AGM batteries a year. It is unclear if they will be under the Varta name or another brand.
Do I need to take special care of an AGM battery?
No. The only caution that needs to be exercised is if you use a battery charger. In that case, you must use one that has a specific AGM charge mode to prevent overcharging. AGM batteries are very sensitive to being overcharged. Also, unlike lead acid batteries, a deeply discharged AGM battery may need a larger charger to get the charge process started.
Does an AGM Battery have a different voltage than a lead acid battery?
Slightly. The resting voltage of a fully charged lead acid battery is approximately 12.7 volts. A fully charged AGM battery will have a resting voltage of 12.8-12.9 volts.
Is my current alternator/voltage regulator compatible with an AGM battery?
Yes. As set forth in the Deka whitepaper on AGM batteries, this maximum voltage is between 13.9 volts for temps over 120f and 15.4 volts for temperatures under 40f. These voltage limits are very close to typical lead acid batteries. Unless there is something wrong with your alternator, it will not harm an AGM battery, in which case it would almost certainly have also damaged a traditional lead acid battery.
It is worth noting that some newer cars (specifically BMW's in the last 10 years) actually have a programmable alternator. When you replace the battery in these cars, you set the type of battery (lead acid or AGM) and reserve capacity. The charging system then tracks the age and type of battery and its charging of it to maximize battery life. This combined with the fact that BMW places batteries under the seat or in the trunk lead to regular reports of batteries lasting about 6 years.
What specs should I look for in a battery?
Three- Warranty, Cold Cranking Amps (CCA), and Reserve Capacity.
Cold Cranking Amps tell you the current a battery will put out for 30 seconds at 0F without dropping below 7.2 volts. Don't get too hung up on this number for the 80, the factory batteries were in the 450-625CCA range depending on the market.
Reserve Capacity- This tells you the number of minutes at 80F the battery can put out 25 amps before it is drawn down to 10.5 volts. The higher the number, the longer you can run accessories and still expect your vehicle to start. Personally, I put much more importance on this number than CCA.
How long should my battery last?
It depends. Heat kills batteries. For every 22F above 77F you can expect your battery to last half as long. Many people are mistaken that cold kills batteries. This incorrect. What will often happen is the heat will cause a decrease in capacity which then shows up when it gets cold and extra demand is put on the battery. If your battery has removable caps, check it once in a while to make sure there is sufficient water, especially if you live in a hot climate.
Sears has some great charts in their faq that give an estimate of how long batteries last in different parts of the U.S. I have attached the photos from the chart at the end of this.
How often should I replace my battery:
I agree with Sears on this which says: "Even if your battery appears fine, you should replace it before the 4th winter season of use. Cold temperatures can reduce your battery's ability to perform at its peak." Modern batteries don't slowly die, they just fail to work one day leaving you stranded. A failing battery also puts more stress on an alternator which can cause premature failure. I replace my batteries every four years, trying to stretch an extra year to save $20-40 on the life of the battery isn't worth it to me.
Environmental/Nationalistic/Religious Comments (I have put these here in the interest of full disclosure because some of the below information is important to people in their purchase decisions)
Note that the majority, if not all of Johnson Controls lead acid batteries (which include Interstate, Die Hard, Duralast, etc.) are now made in Mexico. While I personally don't have an issue with foreign products, I do have concerns that there have been articles concerning lead pollution (and the resulting harm to workers and their families) from improper recycling near these plants.
Exide only has plants in the U.S., so all of their batteries are U.S. made. They also state that they do not export used batteries to Mexico and perform all recycling in the U.S.
If it says East-Penn, it is made in the U.S.
For those that wish to support a Christian focused distributor (I am Jewish so I have no stake in the game), Interstate is privately owned fundamental Christian company that supports Christian organizations."
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Jwestpro
Explorer
continued:
What battery do you recommend?
For standard use, the Autozone Gold 27F for $109. It provides 710CCA and 165min of reserve capacity. The identical battery is also available as the Sears Diehard Gold 27F southern for $125, or the Interstate MTP-27F for a street price of about $125. Personally, I have used the Costco Group 35 batteries for more than 8 years without a problem. If you want a reliable inexpensive battery and aren't worried about having a large battery, the Costco Group 35 is a great value.
If purchasing a U.S. made battery is important, try to find a local Deka dealer and purchase a 24F or 27F battery from them. Exide batteries are also made in the U.S. I personally ended up with a rebadged Deka 24F (labeled Duracell) for $127 that has 800CCA, 115RC and a three year warranty.
If you want a big battery for not a lot of money and are willing to do a little work, get a Group 65. You will need to trim the battery box to allow the cables to be pulled through to reach the terminals and you will need to install a new clamp to properly secure the battery (a search on this forum will bring up what one member did for about $10). You can get a group 65 from Costco for $70 which offers 850CCA and 150 min of reserve capacity for $70. Sears and Autozone offer the same battery for about $135, and you can get the Group 65 AGM from Autozone for about $160.
If you camp a lot, have a fridge or other accessories that draw your battery down and then recharge it, I would suggest getting the Deka Intimidator Group 34R (750CCA and 120min reserve capacity), which is available under the Autozone Duralast Platinum AGM label for $144 or the Sears Diehard Advanced Gold for $154. Note that Sears often has sales with their batteries 10% off. Also, the Deka is available under other labels, but I have named two easily available national companies that have them.
If you are winching and need the ultimate in both current capability and deep discharge capacity, you now have a few choices:
1) The Odyssey 31M, or better yet the Sears Diehard Platinum 31M which is the same battery for less money ($279 but frequently on sale). The Odyssey is rated at 1150CCA with a 205 min reserve capacity. (3 year warranty because it is a marine battery)
2) Northstar 27F from Batteries Plus as the X2Power. How about a big battery that drops in without any cable or hold down mods and has a 5 year replacement warranty!!!! 930CCA and a 190 min reserve capacity for $275.
3) Northstar 31 from Batteries Plus as the X2Power. 1150CCA with a 220 min reserve capacity for $325.
Happy cranking and I hope this helps.
map_cold.jpg map_hot.jpg
What battery do you recommend?
For standard use, the Autozone Gold 27F for $109. It provides 710CCA and 165min of reserve capacity. The identical battery is also available as the Sears Diehard Gold 27F southern for $125, or the Interstate MTP-27F for a street price of about $125. Personally, I have used the Costco Group 35 batteries for more than 8 years without a problem. If you want a reliable inexpensive battery and aren't worried about having a large battery, the Costco Group 35 is a great value.
If purchasing a U.S. made battery is important, try to find a local Deka dealer and purchase a 24F or 27F battery from them. Exide batteries are also made in the U.S. I personally ended up with a rebadged Deka 24F (labeled Duracell) for $127 that has 800CCA, 115RC and a three year warranty.
If you want a big battery for not a lot of money and are willing to do a little work, get a Group 65. You will need to trim the battery box to allow the cables to be pulled through to reach the terminals and you will need to install a new clamp to properly secure the battery (a search on this forum will bring up what one member did for about $10). You can get a group 65 from Costco for $70 which offers 850CCA and 150 min of reserve capacity for $70. Sears and Autozone offer the same battery for about $135, and you can get the Group 65 AGM from Autozone for about $160.
If you camp a lot, have a fridge or other accessories that draw your battery down and then recharge it, I would suggest getting the Deka Intimidator Group 34R (750CCA and 120min reserve capacity), which is available under the Autozone Duralast Platinum AGM label for $144 or the Sears Diehard Advanced Gold for $154. Note that Sears often has sales with their batteries 10% off. Also, the Deka is available under other labels, but I have named two easily available national companies that have them.
If you are winching and need the ultimate in both current capability and deep discharge capacity, you now have a few choices:
1) The Odyssey 31M, or better yet the Sears Diehard Platinum 31M which is the same battery for less money ($279 but frequently on sale). The Odyssey is rated at 1150CCA with a 205 min reserve capacity. (3 year warranty because it is a marine battery)
2) Northstar 27F from Batteries Plus as the X2Power. How about a big battery that drops in without any cable or hold down mods and has a 5 year replacement warranty!!!! 930CCA and a 190 min reserve capacity for $275.
3) Northstar 31 from Batteries Plus as the X2Power. 1150CCA with a 220 min reserve capacity for $325.
Happy cranking and I hope this helps.
map_cold.jpg map_hot.jpg
Can you post pictures of your install so we can compare against jwestpro's to see what the difference is?
I do see from Jwest's pictures that he installed his Ody with the negative post facing front and the positive toward the rear, which is opposite how you'd install say the Optima Yellow 34 with the Traxide Kit….it has the positive in the front and negative in the back. I also see that for his negative post, he looks to have some type of post relocator bracket to move the negative cable attachments to the leading side and I suspect this is to allow for clearance (Jwest - where did you get this post relocator?) I suspect you have the positive post forward which is causing the clearance issues you faced.
here is the optima 34 install I referred to showing the positive fwd:
Here is a pic of the Sears Plat 31. The Sears does have a different post layout because its a marine battery with the extra accessary post and it appears the different placement of the post may be the issue vs the front/back placement as I suggested above:
also it appears the odyssey 2150 has 3/8" threaded studs for post vs the standard battery posts. this may be playing into it as well:
…it appears the 3/8" studs can be removed with an allen and you can replace with a low profile 3/8" bolt to reduce the height even further:
this is what I'm thinking from a bolt down perspective once the studs are removed:
Its looking like the 2150 is the way to go over the die hard plat 31 to get it to fit in the LR3 2nd battery location without the height issues zelatore ran into.
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Jwest:
can you post some close up pictures of both your positive post (with the rubber cap off) and the negative post? it looks as though for the negative post that you removed the threaded stud and used a bolt down to reduce the height even further. is this also the case on the positive?
Nelatore:
Can you check to see if the posts and studs on the diehard are removable?
can you post some close up pictures of both your positive post (with the rubber cap off) and the negative post? it looks as though for the negative post that you removed the threaded stud and used a bolt down to reduce the height even further. is this also the case on the positive?
Nelatore:
Can you check to see if the posts and studs on the diehard are removable?
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I see JWest and I cross-posted the other day.
.
For the record, I did not install the DieHard as an auxiliary battery, it's my only battery. I actually already have the 'extra' space on the port side (driver's side for us yanks) of the truck filled with a pair of Viair compressors so I don't have room to put a battery there anyway. I don't generally spend a lot of time stationary at a base-camp, but I do run a fridge, lights, winch, compressors, HAM, etc, so I wanted the maximum battery capacity I could get in the stock location. I also wanted a form factor that was easier to find in Hillwomp, BFE should I ever be out and have to replace it. On those marks the DieHard group 31 fits the bill, though it is a tight fit....
.
I'll try to get some pics of my installation when I get home from work next week. It's very tall - as both JWest and I mentioned clearance to the hood is the major concern. I took several precautions regarding this - I shudder to think of the consequences of that positive post making contact with the hood. At best I might just burn the paint off the hood. At worst, I might just burn the whole truck to the ground.
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As outlined, my precautions started with removing the hood sound liner and trimming back the hood brace that runs right in line with the positive terminal. I then glued a piece of 1/4" thick heavy rubber from a truck bed mat to the hood directly above the positive post. This is my primary layer of protection. The hood sound liner went back in place over this. That's the second layer of protection, even if it's not a very good one. Lastly, I have a piece of plastic currently over the top of the positive post, though I will replace that with a proper rubber marine positive post cover when I get a chance to pick one up. That makes for 3 layers of protection between the positive post and the hood. Like I said, I'm not looking to take chances with that thing!
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Although I cut the plastic battery tray out, that didn't end up netting me more than about 1/4" as it pretty much sits right down on the fender at it's highest point. If I were doing it again I'd likely skip this step as it's a PITA to do and somewhat hack. I was working late at night and a bit sleep deprived knowing I had to have the truck done and running at 6 the next morning so I'll blame that for not thinking it through more.
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I also made a new battery hold-down bracket basically the same as the stock one but bigger from 1/8" steel and secured it with the stock hold-down bolts. That should hold the battery in place even if I roll the rig. The stock hold-down points will fail well before you break that piece of steel.
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While I could have used the stock ground cable, due to the SAE terminal (this battery has both SAE and marine terminals and no, they are not removable that I can see) being just a tiny bit more in toward the center of the battery than the stock piece the original cable clamp was very difficult to get onto the terminal. Since I have plenty of heavy gauge wire and lugs around from my work in the yacht world (up to 4/0) I just made up a new ground cable. It's actually heavier stuff than stock, and I put ring terminals on it instead of SAE so I can fasten it to the stud on the battery instead of messing with those ridiculous SAE terminals. In the marine world I HATE to see SAE posts used. They are notorious for failing. A proper ring terminal and nut are far better IMO.
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If I had had more time, I probably would have made up new positive cables as well and turned the battery around so the positive post would be more protected under the cowl, but that would involve considerably more work and I wasn't up for it at the time. I was able to re-use the stock positive cables but again due to the slightly different placement of the posts I had to remove the backing of the stock fuse holder on the positive cable. Again, I might re-do this at some point so I can use proper ring terminals on the threaded stud of this battery.
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I suppose if you really wanted to do this right, it wouldn't be hard to cut the top of the fender out and weld in a small box section to lower the battery a bit. It would intrude into the top of the wheel well of course, but I think there is a bit of clearance between the inner liner and the fender. Maybe only 1/2", not sure without pulling the liner to check, but enough to give a little more battery clearance. Of course most people wouldn't want to take on a project like that anyway, but it wouldn't be hard for a guy with a welder.... Just sayin'
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For the record, I did not install the DieHard as an auxiliary battery, it's my only battery. I actually already have the 'extra' space on the port side (driver's side for us yanks) of the truck filled with a pair of Viair compressors so I don't have room to put a battery there anyway. I don't generally spend a lot of time stationary at a base-camp, but I do run a fridge, lights, winch, compressors, HAM, etc, so I wanted the maximum battery capacity I could get in the stock location. I also wanted a form factor that was easier to find in Hillwomp, BFE should I ever be out and have to replace it. On those marks the DieHard group 31 fits the bill, though it is a tight fit....
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I'll try to get some pics of my installation when I get home from work next week. It's very tall - as both JWest and I mentioned clearance to the hood is the major concern. I took several precautions regarding this - I shudder to think of the consequences of that positive post making contact with the hood. At best I might just burn the paint off the hood. At worst, I might just burn the whole truck to the ground.
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As outlined, my precautions started with removing the hood sound liner and trimming back the hood brace that runs right in line with the positive terminal. I then glued a piece of 1/4" thick heavy rubber from a truck bed mat to the hood directly above the positive post. This is my primary layer of protection. The hood sound liner went back in place over this. That's the second layer of protection, even if it's not a very good one. Lastly, I have a piece of plastic currently over the top of the positive post, though I will replace that with a proper rubber marine positive post cover when I get a chance to pick one up. That makes for 3 layers of protection between the positive post and the hood. Like I said, I'm not looking to take chances with that thing!
.
Although I cut the plastic battery tray out, that didn't end up netting me more than about 1/4" as it pretty much sits right down on the fender at it's highest point. If I were doing it again I'd likely skip this step as it's a PITA to do and somewhat hack. I was working late at night and a bit sleep deprived knowing I had to have the truck done and running at 6 the next morning so I'll blame that for not thinking it through more.
.
I also made a new battery hold-down bracket basically the same as the stock one but bigger from 1/8" steel and secured it with the stock hold-down bolts. That should hold the battery in place even if I roll the rig. The stock hold-down points will fail well before you break that piece of steel.
.
While I could have used the stock ground cable, due to the SAE terminal (this battery has both SAE and marine terminals and no, they are not removable that I can see) being just a tiny bit more in toward the center of the battery than the stock piece the original cable clamp was very difficult to get onto the terminal. Since I have plenty of heavy gauge wire and lugs around from my work in the yacht world (up to 4/0) I just made up a new ground cable. It's actually heavier stuff than stock, and I put ring terminals on it instead of SAE so I can fasten it to the stud on the battery instead of messing with those ridiculous SAE terminals. In the marine world I HATE to see SAE posts used. They are notorious for failing. A proper ring terminal and nut are far better IMO.
.
If I had had more time, I probably would have made up new positive cables as well and turned the battery around so the positive post would be more protected under the cowl, but that would involve considerably more work and I wasn't up for it at the time. I was able to re-use the stock positive cables but again due to the slightly different placement of the posts I had to remove the backing of the stock fuse holder on the positive cable. Again, I might re-do this at some point so I can use proper ring terminals on the threaded stud of this battery.
.
I suppose if you really wanted to do this right, it wouldn't be hard to cut the top of the fender out and weld in a small box section to lower the battery a bit. It would intrude into the top of the wheel well of course, but I think there is a bit of clearance between the inner liner and the fender. Maybe only 1/2", not sure without pulling the liner to check, but enough to give a little more battery clearance. Of course most people wouldn't want to take on a project like that anyway, but it wouldn't be hard for a guy with a welder.... Just sayin'
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zelatore - so I suspect the net of this is that the Die Hard 31 Plat may indeed fit in the aux location on the driver's side without the worry of height interference since the interference you encountered was in the primary location on the passenger side and jwest didn't have height issues with the 2150 (same as the DH-Plat-31) in the aux location.
Also jwest mentioned the Ody 1350 fits perfect in the primary location with no mods. This is a 95 ah battery vs the 2150's (and DH Plat 31) 100 ah. Seems like this would be the better choice for going into the primary location for most folks as its only a 5 ah difference and especially for those of who have 2 batteries.
Also jwest mentioned the Ody 1350 fits perfect in the primary location with no mods. This is a 95 ah battery vs the 2150's (and DH Plat 31) 100 ah. Seems like this would be the better choice for going into the primary location for most folks as its only a 5 ah difference and especially for those of who have 2 batteries.
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