"Safari Cab" modular hardtop project

[jscherb]

Ok, the person who is responsible for the survey tells me it should be working now, here's the link again: Safari Cab market survey. Sorry for the inconvenience and please take the survey to help us bring the Safari Cab to market.

The person in charge sends his anonymous apologies, he'll be beaten later.

 

[Beowulf]

Just answered all the questions.

 

[Backwoods Rambler]

Survey done :smiley_drive:

 

[Haggis]

Survey done.

 

[jscherb]

Responses are coming in to the survey already, thanks so much to those who have responsed! A nmber of you are typing additional comments into the text fields, thanks for that too! I'll try to answer many of those questions here if I can keep up. Thanks for the input everyone:

If a cargo rack is not chosen as a option, would an aftermarket full length cargo rack be able to be installed while using this hardtop?

If you mean the type of rack that attaches to the body and rides over the factory hardtop or soft top without touching the top, you'll need to make sure that there would be at least 2 1/2" clearance between the rack system and the factory hardtop because the Safari Cab is taller than the factory hardtop.

If you mean a rack system that bolts to the roof, the answer is probably, if that rack system has roughly the same mounting dimensions as the factory XJ roof rack, because the spacing of the supports in the Safari Cab roof are designed for the CJ rack.

Additions such as cargo area LED interior lighting would be extremely beneficial. The light should not just be a minor addition, but something that truly illuminates the area and is a value add not just another market bullet point.

The company has recognized the need for lighting. It's too early for them to have made decisions about what lighting might be provided and whether it would be standard or optional.

The addition of a Roof Top Tent would be a great addition.

Personally, I don't understand the idea of sleeping on top of your Jeep, unless perhaps there are hungry lions roaming about . Seriously, I don't really know anything about rooftop tents, so either I'd have to team up with someone who does to make sure a rooftop tent could be used with the Safari Cab, or perhaps the company could figure that out.

Considering that this top would be a permanent fixture on my Jeep (and I suspect many others), I would not purchase this top unless it was available with a large sunroof/moonroof towards the front of the top. A second sunroof/moonroof at the rear would be a great addition as well, but not a deciding factor. I would be willing to pay an additional $800 for these assuming they were adequately sized.

I don't believe the company is thinking of providing a factory-installed sunroof at this point, but if there's enough interest and enough willingness to pay for the feature, perhaps they would decide to provide one as an option.

One thing that would absolutely cement my willingness to buy this is a rear wiper/defroster. I haven't followed the thread all that much so I may have missed something if you talked about it, but I drive in some pretty bad weather conditions here in Colorado, and that rear wiper/defroster is very handy.

I have designed the rear door inner mold to accept a wiper and I have also designed how the factory washer system would work with the top as well. I plan to builld a wiper into the top for my LJ. I don't know if the would offer a wiper as standard equipment or optional (or not at all), biut one way or another you could put a wiper/washer in the top.

I would SOOOO buy a safari style single-piece hardtop if it is available for the 4door JK.

Maybe I'll work on a JK top next; I've got some design ideas I've been playing with, but first I have to finish the current project. I have talked to the company about this and they are also interested in a JK top.

 

[jscherb]

Here are some more of the text comments people have entered into the survey...

I know that this hardtop has already been compared to a Land Rover top. I'd say it's different and looks good on a Jeep anyway. But something I have seen on a Land Rover is a raised roof which can be heightened for camping to allow for more headroom and maybe a bed on board and can be lowered again for driving. It seems to be an easy fix when having a hardtop that's modular, so the roof is a separate part. As an extra you could offer a tent like material to close up the gap between the top and the sides.

I really don't know anything about vehicle tents so I'm probably not a good one to engineer this. The way the top is designed, I'm not sure it would make sense to lift the entire roof panel up, I think a lot of the top would have to be reengineered to make this work. Maybe a rooftop tent company will contact me and want to work with me and the other company to provide a combined hardtop/rooftop tent solution?

I would really, really like to see ;
• the extended top with alpine windows
• the front top panel over the driver and passenger smooth and reinforced so that a sunroof can be easily installed.
• same thing in the back, maybe for an RV vent but another sunroof wold be OK too.

Heat is a major problem here in Texas bein' able to pop a top and vent the thing is a MAJOR plus for a hard top here.

For what it's worth I think a major selling point would be if you could sandwich some heat reflecting material in the fiberglass.

I may work more on the extended top design after I finish this first round. I don't have a design for the raised roof I'm happy with yet, so more work has to be done. The roof panel has recessed ribs running from front to back, so if you needed to mount vents or a sunroof in it you would have to find a solution that deals with the recesses. Sunroofs are installed all the time in roofs with similar recesses so I'm sure there's a solution out there. I don't plan to eliminate the recessed ribs in the mold master, I think the ribs are an important part of the overall style, but the company could always do something like that if they felt the demand was there.

Not sure what kind of heat reflecting material you're referring to, but if someone knows of a solution I can check it out.

I still like the idea of the side windows flip open (bottom) and are removable for open air.

The company has yet to make the final window decision so thanks for your input. If the company decides on a window type you don't like, perhaps you could buy one with no side windows and put in your own choice of windows?

I would like for the roof rack to be able to support about 150 lbs. (Two sea kayaks)

We're going to do some testing once the first prototype top is done. I think 150 pounds will be within the range of the base top without the optional roof rack supports, but in case it isn't, it certainly would be within range with the optional supports installed.

I hope you're treating jscherb real nice!

I've got to say working with the people from this company is a real pleasure, if it weren't for them I'm sure I wouldn't be considering bringing this top to market!

I would like to see a 1 piece door. That would limit what I would consider excessive stress on the original door. It seems to me that everytime you close the door (i.e. slam in most cases) as designed there would be some sort of flex at the top edge thereby weakening the stake fastening system over time. I would think it would eventually be an area for leaks to occur.

One of the goals of the design is to make it easy to install and remove the top; having owned a factory CJ-8 World Cab with a 1-piece rear door for years I can tell you it is a lot of trouble to install and align the door or tailgate each time you want to swap the top, so I designed the two-piece rear barn door for the Safari Cab. I believe the design will prove sound over time, but we'll test it thoroughly before putting it in production. If it turns out that the design is not sound (or even if it is), the company may offer a liftgate option instead of the barn door for those who do not want a 2-piece rear barn door.

I would like to see some type of thickened area on the roof, in line with the roll bar. You could offer a separate clamp to attach to the roll bar to support extra roof weight.

I have a design for supporting extra weight on the roof rack; this will probably be an optional accessory.

I really want one of these tops and would really like to see it modular. I would also like the option of buying each section 1 at a time. That way I can get the options I want, and to spread out the purchase price, and the ability to replace damaged sections or buy different versions of each section.

just to give an idea

roof=$500, TJ door frames=$200 each, side panels with solid windows $400 each, rear corners=$200 each, rear barn door upper=$300. This makes a $2400 top. I would gladly do something like this if it was available

The company could decide to offer it "by the piece" (and probably would offer "replacement parts" that way), but I expect most likely they would mold it in fewer pieces than than you've described - I'd expect they would mold the full top in 4 pieces - 2 sides (consisting of door surrounds, window panels and rear corners all molded in one piece), the roof panel and the rear door upper. Molding it in fewer pieces still results in modular construction that can be disassembled for shipping, removal and storage; doing fewer pieces reduces the cost of manufacture, reduces the number of seams that could leak and results in a more rigid, stronger product.

Thanks again to everyone who's answered the survey so far... and if you haven't answered it yet, please do!
Jeff

 

[ExpoMike]

This has been a great thread and your prototype work and drawings are awesome.

You had asked about multi piece or as one piece. Here is my input. I think the multi piece would be a better way to go IF you can make sure the seems will seal up. Leaks will equal a failed product.

As for why multi piece, to start with, it would make it easier to ship (i.e. less costly). It would also allow replacement panels should one get damaged for whatever reason. Another great idea is, say someone gets side panels with windows of one style or another and down the road their needs change, instead of buying a whole new top, they can just buy the two side panels in the new configuration.

Just wanted to add my .02 worth.

 

[jscherb]

This has been a great thread and your prototype work and drawings are awesome.

Thank you very much.

You had asked about multi piece or as one piece. Here is my input. I think the multi piece would be a better way to go IF you can make sure the seems will seal up. Leaks will equal a failed product..

In the production modular design, the only seams would be between the roof panel and the side panels, they are not a problem to seal, so no worries about leaks.

 

[jscherb]

Here are some more survey comments from last night.

"Safari" styling is key. Security, Noise Reduction, and Durability are next. Followed by Modularity, Ease of Removal, and Color. Most that I run with will paint and alter to fit their needs. I have been following this on both the Jeepforum and ExpeditionPortal. Keep up the quality work!!

Thanks! I'd love to know what kind of alterations you're thinking people will make... maybe some of them are things I could add as features to the base top or as options.

Please consider Tilt out (Ford & Dodge van-style) tilt-out windows - even removable

The company and I are open to considering all types of windows, but so far in the comments made in the threads, it seems that sliders are by far the favorite, followed by simple fixed windows. Some comments have been made for tilt-out (like mini-vans) and tilt-up (like some pickup caps), but so far in my opinion not enough to warrant making them the standard for the top. It may be possible that different windows could be offered as an extra-cost option, although the window suppliers the company and I have talked to have minimum orders which probably make it impractical from a cost and inventory point of view to offer more than one or two choices.

The fallback position I think is for people to order the van-style top with no side windows, and work with a retail window supplier like Motion Windows (Marine Sliding Windows & Custom RV Exterior Windows) to get their own custom windows made.

I am most interested in a low cost LJ version with solid side windows and small opera windows. The roof rack would need to be strong enough to hold a canoe on top or several suit cases on long trips. I have a hard top so a purchase is not guaranteed no matter how much I like the design. However, if I didn't have a top or if something happened to mine this top would be the top choice. Definetly worth more than other tops.

Canoe and/or several suitcases can definitely be carried on the top, the question we still have to test is what's the point at which the maximum weight for the base top is exceeded and the optional internal roof rack support would be required. As you know fiberglass tops of any kind don't have extremely high weight carrying capacity; I think the weight recommended for the base top will end up being somewhere between 100 and 150 pounds and above that the optional rack support will be required.

I have a four-cylinder TJ with half-doors. Would there be an option for door top-halves? Also, how much is this top expected to weigh?

At this point I don't have plans to make half-door uppers, I think there are other suppliers on the market that offer those, and as long as they are compatible with the factory tops, those uppers will be compatible with the Safari Cab. I'm not sure what I could design that would be much different or offer different features than the uppers already on the market to make a unique product, so if I'm going to build more things, I should focus on things I can make that would be unique, like different style roof panels for the Safari Cab, perhaps a Liberty-style light bar custom-fit to the Safari Cab roof, maybe custom bulkheads with speakers and storage for the half cabs, maybe a modular JK Safari Cab, things like that... but if there's some half-door upper feature that's not provided in the current products on the market, let me know and I'll think about whether it would be worth producing uppers to incorporate those features. Building mold masters for half-door uppers would be a fairly straightforward project.

As for weight, I expect the complete production top to be in the same weight range as factory tops and the other fiberglass tops on the market. While the Safari Cab design is different from the rest, the quantity of raw materials required isn't all that much different, so the weight would end up being about the same.

"The base model top would not have...drip rails for drip rail mounted racks" Keep in mind that the drip rail is a key design feature that makes the top look right. Having a distinct visual break between the roof and sides is key to making this top look different from the OEM top I have. Also key for making it look right in two colors (white roof, khaki sides). Besides this, the drip rail is key for keeping rain and snow out of the cab. The drip rail over the door on my OEM top is the minimum strength and shape you need, but Jeff's top should have the drip rail go all the way round.

I'm not sure what post this is quoted from, but somehow it's been misunderstood. In my design, all Safari Cabs have a drip rail around the perimeter of the roof. I did say that the drip rail will not be capable of supporting drip-rail-mounted aftermarket roof racks, so maybe that's where the confusion is.

early YJs and CJ7s have a sport bar as opposed to the family bar. I have the family one, so I feel like I'd be able to find an XJ roof rack, cut it to length, and install it with roll bar supports without an issues. The sport bar would be much harder to work with.

Yes, the family bar models are much easier for providing internal support for the roof rack; the earlier sport bar would require a more involved suport system since there are no high-level bars at the rear of the tub. I have a design for rack support fot the sport bar models; we'll have to see what the demand is for extra weight capacity on those models as input to the company's decision to produce the optional support for the sport bar models.

I don't know if this is important or not, but I would probably only use the top in the winter. This could explain my desires for a basic, value priced model with no frills.

The very cheapest full top we could probably produce would be one with no windows, done in primer, and without the disassembly feature. Is that what you mean by "no frills" or would you want windows and the disassembly feature?


If you haven't answered the survey yet, please do! And keep the feedback coming.

Jeff

---------------------
Questions about the Safari Cab? Try here first: Safari Cab FAQ
---------------------

 

[ryanhewitt]

Yes on being modular

The largest reason I don't own a hardtop is because I don't have room to store it. As mentioned the ability to replace/swap sections is very appealing. Just another comment to add to the list.

 

[jscherb]

Thanks again to everyone who's taken the time to answer the survey; here's a few more of the text comments and some responses for you.

as far as options goes... I vote sliders for the windows (tinted because is way too hot in Texas) I could take or leave a sunroof... being able to take off the sides/rear hatch and just run the roof would be a nice feature

Sliders seem to be the most popular window option, so you're in the majority.

The top is not designed to run the just the roof without the sides, sorry. I wouldn't be surprised if someone buys one and modifies it to do that though .

I am in the market for a hard top, price and function are very important. I plan on leaving it on all the time but like the option to take out the sides. I am also in the market for after market full doors for my yj , they are hard to find used and in good shape. If they are in good shape people want good money for them, since they are so hard to find. I would love to see your company add a nice full door with roll down window. On my first jeep I had an hard top and loved it except for the increasd noise if you can secure it properly. I love this project and really hope to add one to my 88 yj.

Just to be clear, yes, the sides can be removed from the roof, but no, you can't drive the Jeep that way. They are removable only to make it easier to install/uninstall the top and to make it easier to store and ship. The sides are necessary to support the roof.

I have no plans to build full doors; there are plenty of Jeep YJ factory doors on the market in good shape for less than the company could sell them for.

Securing the top to the Jeep won't be a problem.

I only have a softop because that has been my preference. However, my daughter will be taking my Jeep to college next year and a hardtop is a must. I will purchase a hard top in the next 12 months and I prefer your styling and 'possible features' over any other hardtop out there. If the final product's quality is reflective of the current effort, I am a customer who's
only awaiting the product.

I promise I won't let the quality slip .

Very interested in a safari top for the jk. Rarely if ever take the hard top off, so real concern is security and space for overland travel.

I would buy a 4 door JK version in a second if it becomes available.

Maybe a JK Safari Cab will be a future project...

I have a oem hardtop but haven't put it back on since removing it the first time 'cuz it's a hassle for one person, especially with my Garvin expedition rack.

If you're talking about the Garvin rack that attaches to the body and rides above the top, you should be aware that the Safari Cab is about 2 1/2" taller than the factory hardtop, so there may not be enough clearance under some of those types of racks to fit the Safari Cab.

I think a rear dome light, connected to the door sensors (with little to zero wire splicing if possible for 03+ models - don't mind running some sort of plug-in adapter though) would be a great improvement from the stock LJ top, in addition to the style advantage.

I've talked to the company a little bit about wiring; given that this top fits many different models, one of the ideas we've talk about is to provide a "Customization Guide" document for the Safari Cab that would describe how to connect up interior lighting yourself (among other topics). I'm not sure it would be cost-effective for them to do the engineering necessary to make plug-and-play harnesses for all of the Jeep models when so many Jeepers are do-it-yourselfers and wouldn't pay extra for a wiring harness, but I could be wrong about that. Good input, though, something for the company to give some serious thought to.



Here's the link to the survey again for those who haven't taken it:

Safari Cab market survey for those who haven't taken the survey yet.

---------------------
Questions about the Safari Cab? Try here first: Safari Cab FAQ
---------------------

 

[jscherb]

Digital doodling... an LJ on 35's with a Safari Cab van...

 

[jscherb]

A few more comments and answers...

I don't like sleeping on the ground so hopefully a RTT will be coming along soon.

As I've said a few times, I know nothing about roof top tents, so I'm not the person to design that feature into the Safari Cab. If an RTT company is interested in their RTT working with the Safari Cab maybe they could contact me and I'd be happy to explore the possibility with them.

I will need a roof rack. I have a soft top so the cage I get needs to be compatible or modifiable to your hard top or it's a no go.

Any cage that fits inside a factory soft top and hard top should fit inside the Safari Cab. The optional roof rack supports I've designed work with the factory roll bar; if your cage is different from the factory roll bar you may have to build or adapt something in order to provide extra support for your roof rack, it's impossible to tell without knowing what type of cage you're planning.

Picking a light Khaki or paintable top will depend on the pricepoint and the cost of painting the top. I do not want black at all. I live in AR and it is 100 in the summer a lot.

Getting a top from the company in a colored/textured gelcoat would almost certainly be cheaper than getting a primed top and then paying a body shop to paint it for you. If you painted the top yourself, maybe the math would be different.

Seems to me the color of the roof is most important for heat reduction, what if you got a white roof? Then you could get whatever color sides you want?

Options that would increase my interest and probability of purchase:

1. Ability to purchase modular pieces seperatly so I could piece together both a full-size top as well as a half-cab top without buying two complete tops.

Most likely the door surrounds, side window panels and rear corners would be molded into a single piece full length side. The main reason for this is cost - molding each part individually would significantly increase the cost of the top and would probably price it out of the market.

The full-length hardtops would disassemble into 4 parts - 2 sides, the roof and the rear door which still makes them manageable for installation, removal, shipping and storage.

2. Drip rails that are able to accept aftermarket roof racks from companies such as Yakima.

I've provided for rooftop carrying capacity in the design by using XJ Cherokee-style racks and an optional internal support system. The aftermarket provides great support for the Cherokee rack, including extension bars that are compatible with Yakima, add-on baskets, kayak racks, etc., so hopefully this will meet the needs of the majority.

Being bonded to the fiberglass roof panel, the drip rails on the Safari Cab just won't have the same strength that drip rails that are an integral part of a welded metal body would have.

Would be nice if you had a question on here about what kind of windows. I like the tilt out idea better than sliders.

When the window type was discussed in detail earlier in the jeepforum thread it seemed to me that sliders were the overwhelming choice of the people who posted, so that's what we've been primarily looking at. Fixed glass is a possibility as well.

The addition of opera windows is cool but at what additional cost? (It's $1-200 cool but not $500 cool)

Based on the prices from the window suppliers we've been talking to, the wholesale cost for the four opera windows in quantity is surprisingly inexpensive so they are very comfortably within your lower range.

Biggest killer? Shipping. I don't mind spending $2000 on a quality top- but if there's $500 shipping on top of that, well....

Being that the top is modular, it should be able to be shipped in a much lower freight classification than a completely assembled top - the company researched shipping, and they told me that completed tops ship "class 300" because they are "Completed automobile convertible tops", but the modular Safari Cabs may be able to ship as "class 125 knock down, convertible tops" which is less than half the class rating. I don't know what that translates to in actual shipping dollars, but the savings could be significant.



Here's the link to the survey again for those who haven't taken it: Safari Cab market survey.

---------------------
Questions about the Safari Cab? Try here first: Safari Cab FAQ
---------------------

 

[Flyn G]

:bowdown:
:drool::drool::drool:

 

[jscherb]

I shot all the parts with automotive high-build primer/surfacer today. Sometimes when you put the first color/primer coat on a part the uniformity of color highlights flaws you never knew existed, but today's spraying was a pleasant surprise - if I was just planning to do a textured finish on the final tops, the surface would be good enough to mold pretty much as it is. But since I'm going for a surface that will be show quality in gloss black, I've got to do some block sanding to really perfect everything. But overall things are moving along very well - if things continue at this pace mold making and first parts will happen withing a few weeks.