Series upgrade questions

[superpowerdave]

Last July I began the long, ardous task of tearing down the Series III 88. She needed a multitude of things that I'd just not had time for in between deployments and PCS moves, and when frame rot became something I could no longer ignore, we decided it would be best to tackle everything at once rather than trying to piece it all together as time allowed.

So now she sits, stripped entirely, every bolt and screw removed and bagged. The engine has been torn down completely, paint has been stripped, frame is off at the welders yard, and the rest of her sits idly by in gigantic Rubbermaid containers until I return.

I've been biding my time in Iraq for the better part of six months, and as my tour comes to a close, my eagerness to attack, upgrade, repair and repaint has become an obsession. As I've been going through the pains of withdrawal of gear oil and leaky seals, I've been putting a lot of thought into the upgrades we will complete as we go along.

The truck will be a daily driver for me most of the year, as she had been for the three years prior to the teardown, but we're doing some suspension modifications to improve her ability offroad and onroad as well. Until this point she'd been a relatively stocker truck, nothing really added aside from tires and fog lights.

I'm hoping responses will be filled with things others have done before that made the world of difference. Really anything you might suggest would be greatly appreciated, from the encompassing to the minute so I can begin my purchasing in advance of my return.

Thanks all-

EZ

 

[Michael Slade]

First of all, and most importantly, THANK YOU for your service to our country.

Let me think of a good answer and I'll get back to you.

I have been exactly where you are, *twice* before. Starting with a stripped frame and a bucket of parts can lead down paths of darkness and confusion young Jedi. Start with a firm plan and don't deviate from it. Know the end before you begin...only then can you start with confidence.

 

[JackW]

Since I'm sorta in the middle of this same sort of thing myself I can offer some bits of advice. I started with a bare frame and coated it with POR15 rust paint and their topcoat. Then I renewed all of the bushings in the frame and added some Rocky Mountain parabolic springs. A rebuilt steering relay, new bearings and seals in the axles and all new tie rod ends will make the truck drive like new when its all back together.

I'd love to add one of the disc brake conversion kits to the front - if I had the funds I'd do that now but will probably upgrade later. My truck is at the rolling chassis stage now - need to rebuild the gearbox and and motor and then drop it into the frame. I'll plan on balancing the engine - makes a big difference on a 3-main bearing setup in my IIA and getting the inserts put in the head for unleaded fuel.

I'll try to stick close to how the factory built the trucks in the first place with the reassembly sequence - luckily I got to visit the factory and take a tour just as the last of the Series trucks were coming off the line in 1984.

If you've never driven a 'New" Series truck you'll be surprised at how nicely they run whne everything is brought back to original tolerances.

 

[superpowerdave]

Jack - the rolling chassis looks great, makes me wish mine were that far along! POR-15 is in the plan for the frame, don't want to do this again!

I thought about a brake conversion because everyone told me I should and then thought back and realized my braking system has always seemed just fine to me, and so I passed.

Did you have any body work to do or was respray not in the cards? I only ask because mine was in dire need of both (previous owner painted it with latex house paint). The panels are all bare aluminum right now, but when I get to them they will need a bit of dent-massaging Not looking for showroom, but I would like some of the bigger dings smoothed out some.

Did you switch to an electronic ignition? Any lighting upgrades? Wiring harness? Argh, this makes me want to be in the shop right now so bad!

Keep 'em coming!

Michael - you're welcome, and thank you for saying so; that comment wasn't missed.

 

[JSBriggs]

Longer front spring will help with the ride. If you are up to lengthening the front frame horns to accommodate rear springs in the front, it will not only improve the ride but also articulation offroad. If you don't want to lengthen the frame, maybe consider FJ60 front springs. They are longer behind the axle, so you would only need to relocate the rear mount for the front spring.

-Jeff

 

[superpowerdave]

Longer front spring will help with the ride. If you are up to lengthening the front frame horns to accommodate rear springs in the front, it will not only improve the ride but also articulation offroad. If you don't want to lengthen the frame, maybe consider FJ60 front springs. They are longer behind the axle, so you would only need to relocate the rear mount for the front spring.

-Jeff

Jeff! I was hoping you'd chime in. I hope this doesn't hurt your feelings ... but I'm not sure the chrom D90 bumper you sent me will remain with this truck We'll see though.

Suspension was something I'd toyed with a lot and my welder had a lot of different ideas. I was wondering what springs I could use with some spring mount relocations. A TLC buddy of mine thought 60 springs might work, or even 40s but I wasn't sure. If I was to go all the way around Toyota springs do you know what I might need? Moving perches isn't a problem at all - lengthening the front frame horns might be.

Does anyone have any comments regarding a spring over axle? Seems easy to do since it's all apart and everything can get aligned properly prior to putting the body back on. Also it would keep me from chewing fenders up with the over-sized tires. Would I be looking at serious driveability issues though?

 

[Alaska Mike]

Jeff! I was hoping you'd chime in. I hope this doesn't hurt your feelings ... but I'm not sure the chrom D90 bumper you sent me will remain with this truck We'll see though.

Suspension was something I'd toyed with a lot and my welder had a lot of different ideas. I was wondering what springs I could use with some spring mount relocations. A TLC buddy of mine thought 60 springs might work, or even 40s but I wasn't sure. If I was to go all the way around Toyota springs do you know what I might need? Moving perches isn't a problem at all - lengthening the front frame horns might be.

Does anyone have any comments regarding a spring over axle? Seems easy to do since it's all apart and everything can get aligned properly prior to putting the body back on. Also it would keep me from chewing fenders up with the over-sized tires. Would I be looking at serious driveability issues though?

I would guess you would have several issues with a SOA conversion. Obviously they are very popular in the Jeep world, but in short wheelbase vehicles they can cause serious driveline issues (and possible frame crossmember clearance issues in a Series III). Then you have the very marginal brakes- even for stock tires. The steering is a whole 'nother issue. Stability would be iffy, especially with a narrow wheel/tire.

Honestly, I would stay stock height or semi-stock unless you want to engineer the thing to death. It's a Rover- run some good tires and a good winch (with some good body armor), and you'll be amazed where it can go. Please don't turn it into what it's not- a Jeep.

 

[JackW]

I thought about a brake conversion because everyone told me I should and then thought back and realized my braking system has always seemed just fine to me, and so I passed. My D-90 has spoiled me on brakes - like just this morning when a woman pulled out right in front of me without looking - in a Series truck I would have nailed her right in the drivers door...

Did you have any body work to do or was respray not in the cards? I only ask because mine was in dire need of both (previous owner painted it with latex house paint). The panels are all bare aluminum right now, but when I get to them they will need a bit of dent-massaging Not looking for showroom, but I would like some of the bigger dings smoothed out some. My panels are also bare aluminum - only bodywork other than a few minor dings will be the replacement of the lower right rear corner of the rear fender. I'll paint the parts in detail like the factory does and assemble it later.
A good coat of epoxy primer followed by a few coats of bright yellow and I'll be good to go.


Did you switch to an electronic ignition? Any lighting upgrades? Wiring harness? Argh, this makes me want to be in the shop right now so bad!
I bought a new wire harness on clearance from Atlantic British a couple of years ago and there's a good looking ignition system out of England that I can't remember the name of right now - its bookmarked on my work computer and looks more robust than the Pertronix. I'll probably run Cibie lights as I do on almost everything else.

Keep 'em coming!

Michael - you're welcome, and thank you for saying so; that comment wasn't missed.

Lots to think about - but it's easier to restore these than old Porsches!

 

[superpowerdave]

Honestly, I would stay stock height or semi-stock unless you want to engineer the thing to death. It's a Rover- run some good tires and a good winch (with some good body armor), and you'll be amazed where it can go. Please don't turn it into what it's not- a Jeep.

Yep, I know it's not a Jeep ... I've got a handful of them


How would one go semi-stock height on a Series truck? On a stock Series suspension decent sized tires beat the hell out of the fenders and I'd rather not get the truck all pretty only to bend the panels first full stuff on a trail. If you've got some ideas I'm all ears but for the kind of wheeling we do out here 32x12.50 is about the smallest you can go and be fairly successful.

I know there would be more fabrication involved in a spring over but if there was ever a time to do it it would be when the entire rolling chassis was naked.

 

[Michael Slade]

I say keep it stock. Do the softer springs, maybe the Toy springs in the front, parabolics in the rear, use some military shackles or make your own longer ones. Do the electric ignition conversion. Leave the brakes alone...just learn how to adjust them. Keep it simple. Get a IIa transmission and not a III...learn how to double-clutch. Don't over think it, but don't cut corners. Don't put lots of crap on it. Maybe do a rear locker. Simple sliders and bumper.

You haven't said what your goals with it are, but since you've had Jeeps you know that this Rover is not. But, you also know what it is, so let it be that.

It's kind of a Zen approach to rebuilding it, but after being around a lot of modi-fried vehicles and seeing their weaknesses, I say keep it as close to stock as you can.

Pics would help too.

 

[JackW]

The parabolics will give it about 1-1/2" of lift. I usually run 235/85R16 tires on my Series trucks - the 255/85's on the car now look a little overwhelming.

 

[superpowerdave]

I say keep it stock. Do the softer springs, maybe the Toy springs in the front, parabolics in the rear, use some military shackles or make your own longer ones. Do the electric ignition conversion. Leave the brakes alone...just learn how to adjust them. Keep it simple. Get a IIa transmission and not a III...learn how to double-clutch. Don't over think it, but don't cut corners. Don't put lots of crap on it. Maybe do a rear locker. Simple sliders and bumper.

You haven't said what your goals with it are, but since you've had Jeeps you know that this Rover is not. But, you also know what it is, so let it be that.

It's kind of a Zen approach to rebuilding it, but after being around a lot of modi-fried vehicles and seeing their weaknesses, I say keep it as close to stock as you can.

Pics would help too.

Michael -

Let me clarify - I know it's not a Jeep, because I have a handful ... of Land Rovers

I've already got a IIA so I probably won't bother with a tranny swap, but who knows ... I have a donor IIA sitting in the driveway complete right now.

Goals are pretty simple honestly - competent daily driver year round, run moderate trail runner equipped for Idaho rock trail and fire road alike. I have no problem cruising at 55, I want to run a 32 sized tire at a minimum, will do armor all around as time and money permits.

Lots of crap is not required Simple is what I enjoy about these trucks. I'll do a hoop set for a Surrey top for the summer, not a roll-bar. The true goal at the end of the journey though is being able to strap my daughter in the front seat and take her on a Sunday drive through the mountains

 

[evilfij]

1. Send the bulkhead and breakfast and frame out to be galvanized when they are repaired.
2. If you do #1, nothing else really matters and anything you don't like you can change in a weekend.

 

[JSBriggs]

I would keep it sprung under.

The green one is my dads 109, sprung under on 33's with 88" rear springs in the front with extended frame horns. The blue on is Matt Moran's, sprung over with the same spring/frame mods. Granted I think he is running 36's but look at the axle center compared to the bottom of the door on each truck. It provides quite a bit of lift.

Again the FJ60 front spring is the same length as a Rover in front of the axle, and longer behind the axle, so it will give a bit softer ride as well as give a bit more articulation.

I would also consider adding power steering, using either a Scout II or P38 box and a military double pulley for the PS pump.

-Jeff

 

[cjmitchell5]

This thread got me thinking. How blasphemous would it be to POR-15 over a new galvanized frame?