Snorkel = Snake Oil ?

[HMR]

Am I the only one who wades out into a creek crossing if I'm unsure of the depth?

 

[pete.wilson]

Hey

Ironsmiles,

I will give you credit for being honest.

as for your comment: "I think where the problem comes in is when people think because they have a snorkel they are suddenly driving a boat when that is definately not the case. I don't want a boat either, if I want to go chill in some water I'll grab a kayak, not my jeep, haha."

That comment is exactly right and the reason I said what I said. There are loads of people with 4 wheel drives who know nothing about them, how they work, how they can get you into trouble through that false sense of security. The original poster made a good comment about having a snorkel but yet ignoring failure of the electrical system. I think it's safe to say the electronics are protected but not water proof.

I saw in 4wd toyota owner magazine(jan/feb 08 pg. 42-44) of a aussie guy doing a water crossing nearly hood high in a toyota land cruiser who had a big tarp that covered his whole frontend, no snorkel and he had no issues (that I know of?). Would he be better of with a snorkel...probably. But I still stick to idea that for the vast majority it isn't needed. A good Winch, now that's a different story.

Pete Wilson


P.S. Break into my house and I'm home, you will get shot! FACT!

 

[jingram]

I am not going to address the snorkel issue, but rather the airflow issue. As any of you have ever put any kind of an intake on a modern car will know, most manufacturers these days have a large intake resonator to quiet down engine noise coming from the intake. On a lot of Hondas for example this is hidden in the inner fender well. That all being said, the reality is that these things don't do that much to impede airflow. Guys benchrace this stuff all day long and on the dyno you may if you're lucky, pick up a few horse power (at least on those low displacement motors), but they really aren't inhibiting airflow that much. The snorkel if anything just might have a more direct path than the stock intake does. Furthermore, you are drawing in cold air from the snorkel, so picture it like a cold air intake. Also, if you run in really dusty environments, with a cyclonic filter, they are hard to beat.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

... But I still stick to idea that for the vast majority it isn't needed. A good Winch, now that's a different story...

Numerically speaking... there are FAR more un-used/un-needed winches on rigs all over the world than there are snorkels IMO (not proportional, shear numbers that is). I carry alot of stuff I hope I don't need, I carry an advanced first aid kit, never really needed it. I carry a gun, never really needed it. I carry on onboard welder, never really needed it. I carry alot of spares I havn't needed to date. The whole idea behind being prepared is being prepared for sorts of possible situations and in Utah, spring runoff or a flash flood can easily make water too deep for the average vehicle, simple as that. I've been in a siutation where my engine was breathing off my snorkel, both in my Land Cruiser and my Tacoma, I didn't wait for my trip to be re-routed to install it

Region has alot to do with it IMO, it Utah there are alot of trails that can easily be too deep to safely ford sans a snorkel, now taking all of the other issues into mind (such as the extremely low pickup of a Tacoma), I don't want my weekend or engine ruined over $300-400 bucks, just as I don't want my life to be in jeapordy because I didn't bring a gun To question the level of preparation of others, is pointless IMO. I'd 10x rather be on the trail with a group of folks that brings "everything" versus with a handful of people that rely on me to provide everything.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

P.S. Break into my house and I'm home, you will get shot! FACT!

How many times have you had to protect your home with a bullet?

 

[IH8RDS]

Hey
How many times have you had been in water deep enough to flood your engine had it not been for the snorkel? Be honest, no BS!

Pete Wilson

Three times here. The XJ intake is just lower and behind the left tail light. 2 times it was dropping into a river where the bank was steep and once during a tropical storm. It was up to the windshield on the road! If I didn't have it I would not have been able to get gas for my generator. Money well spent here. I have the ARB SS.

 

[IronSmiles]

Numerically speaking... there are FAR more un-used/un-needed winches on rigs all over the world than there are snorkels IMO (not proportional, shear numbers that is). I carry alot of stuff I hope I don't need, I carry an advanced first aid kit, never really needed it. I carry a gun, never really needed it. I carry on onboard welder, never really needed it. I carry alot of spares I havn't needed to date. The whole idea behind being prepared is being prepared for sorts of possible situations and in Utah, spring runoff or a flash flood can easily make water too deep for the average vehicle, simple as that. I've been in a siutation where my engine was breathing off my snorkel, both in my Land Cruiser and my Tacoma, I didn't wait for my trip to be re-routed to install it

Region has alot to do with it IMO, it Utah there are alot of trails that can easily be too deep to safely ford sans a snorkel, now taking all of the other issues into mind (such as the extremely low pickup of a Tacoma), I don't want my weekend or engine ruined over $300-400 bucks, just as I don't want my life to be in jeapordy because I didn't bring a gun To question the level of preparation of others, is pointless IMO. I'd 10x rather be on the trail with a group of folks that brings "everything" versus with a handful of people that rely on me to provide everything.

Sums up my argument for having one, and installing/using it properly. :beer:

 

[madizell]

Or in other words, is it not true that a snorkel really does not extend the maximum wading/fording depth of a vehicle?

Absolutely not true. Properly executed, a snorkel greatly extends depth of fording. Most electronically controlled vehicles either have the electronics inside the cab, or if outside, they are waterproofed sufficiently.

Splash is a major factor in fording depth. Any water introduced to the fan will end up everywhere under the hood. Drawing air from outside that area negates most of the downside of water under the hood. Minor ignition waterproofing is sufficient to make most engines run with serious depth of water.

With the setup I now run, I can switch from snorkel to under-hood air pickup with a K&N cone filter. With the filter, I have drowned the motor just from puddle splash on wet trails. Hitting 2 feet of water killed the motor instantly. With the snorkel, I have done 5 feet in short stretches, and 4 feet for as long as you want to drive forward.

Snorkels are not a joke.

 

[madizell]

How many times have you had been in water deep enough to flood your engine had it not been for the snorkel? Be honest, no BS!

Driving trails in Alaska, just about every other time I went out on a trail rated over 2 on a scale of 5 we would see water between 2 and 4 feet. Some trails started out crossing major steams with water to 3 feet, and several had the potential to see 4 feet in several crossings. All of this was moving water and serious business.

During one event in Australia, we saw 5 feet for a short stretch of just under one car length, and there was a 6 foot deep hole just to the side which we missed but others did not.

How many times? Lost count by now. Of course this all depends on where you drive and what you are willing to do with your rig. If you don't have a snorkel, stay out of deep water.

 

[pete.wilson]

Hey

I think the orginal point I was making has already been made but to reply to what's been said.

CruiserOutfit says: "The whole idea behind being prepared is being prepared for sorts of possible situations and in Utah, spring runoff or a flash flood can easily make water too deep for the average vehicle, simple as that. I've been in a siutation where my engine was breathing off my snorkel, both in my Land Cruiser and my Tacoma, I didn't wait for my trip to be re-routed to install it."

If your willing to drive into water from a spring runoff thats one thing but to go into a flash flood? I would question your wisdom in that, no matter where you live.

Ih8rds says: 2 times it was dropping into a river where the bank was steep and once during a tropical storm. It was up to the windshield on the road! If I didn't have it I would not have been able to get gas for my generator.

If your concerned about being prepared for a tropical storm, shouldn't you have bought enough gas before the storm came?

I like what HMR wrote: Am I the only one who wades out into a creek crossing if I'm unsure of the depth? (Now that seems to make good sense)

And then the comment: How many times have you had to protect your home with a bullet? I never had to and hope I don't, but I am prepared.

If you guys want to buy a snorkel, winch, welder, beadlocks etc. I don't care. I have no problem about people being prepared, everybody should and their vehicle should built to be as capable as needed for the area's they go into (with common sense). Have you ever looked at the "OOPS" portion of one of the offroad mags and said to yourself "What a DumbA**" for going into that mess. Now if we can get back to the original posters comment about snorkels and forgetting our electronics. It's all good guys, we're all friends here. Happy Trails.

Pete Wilson

 

[cruiseroutfit]

...If your willing to drive into water from a spring runoff thats one thing but to go into a flash flood? I would question your wisdom in that, no matter where you live....

See Pete, you obviously havn't spent much time out west my freind. A flash flood can come and go a week before one enters an area, what it leaves behind are washouts and sometimes deep puddles, torn up by the turbulance of a flood. On a recent outing, myself and a hanful of other ExPo'ers were stopped by a long section of flooded trail, the interesting part is that we had already made it through the washed out river section, it was the trail that was flooded a 1/4 mile away from the flooding that had taken place weeks earlier. I never said I cross flash floods, I simply said they can leave behind water that is too deep to cross otherwise. On that note, the common conception of a "flash flood" is often misleading, while they generally do appear as violent masses of water, in a flood basin they can be 6" deep and 100 feet across, I wouldn't hesitate to cross one. Would I enter a slot canyon flowing 10' over norms, of course not

Ih8rds says: 2 times it was dropping into a river where the bank was steep and once during a tropical storm. It was up to the windshield on the road! If I didn't have it I would not have been able to get gas for my generator.

If your concerned about being prepared for a tropical storm, shouldn't you have bought enough gas before the storm came?

I like what HMR wrote: Am I the only one who wades out into a creek crossing if I'm unsure of the depth? (Now that seems to make good sense)

...And then the comment: How many times have you had to protect your home with a bullet? I never had to and hope I don't, but I am prepared.

Would you like to be the pot or the kettle Preparedness means different things for different people. Some could never imagine owning a gun to protect their house, while others think its fundemental... I feel the same way about the modifications and gear I cary along on a trip... simple as that.

I've said it countless times before and I'll say it again. Prepping your rig for water crossings doesn't end with installing a snorkel, simply put. Diffs, trans, TC, dizzy's, compressors, etc all need to be plumbed accordingly.

 

[BruceTS]

How many times have you had been in water deep enough to flood your engine had it not been for the snorkel? Be honest, no BS!

Well after hydrolocking my engine and snapping 3 rods, of which, one went through the side of the block, I didn't hesitate and installed a snorkel.

The catch is...... I only spent $10 on mine...... Took some ABS pipe and routed the intake into the cab. To date I've crossed streams deep enough to go over my hood several times, and many occasions that would have easily locked my engine without it.

 

[BigAl]

Some pics for your enjoyment...
Cherokee with a snorkle

Cherokee without a snorkle

Land of suck

 

[ntsqd]

I am not going to address the snorkel issue, but rather the airflow issue. As any of you have ever put any kind of an intake on a modern car will know, most manufacturers these days have a large intake resonator to quiet down engine noise coming from the intake. On a lot of Hondas for example this is hidden in the inner fender well. That all being said, the reality is that these things don't do that much to impede airflow. Guys benchrace this stuff all day long and on the dyno you may if you're lucky, pick up a few horse power (at least on those low displacement motors), but they really aren't inhibiting airflow that much. The snorkel if anything just might have a more direct path than the stock intake does. Furthermore, you are drawing in cold air from the snorkel, so picture it like a cold air intake. Also, if you run in really dusty environments, with a cyclonic filter, they are hard to beat.

The root of my question was that since they greatly extend the length of the intake track without also proportionately increasing the diameter made me wonder about boundary layer flow reductions and turbulent flow due to all of the convoluted shapes. The real world experience posts quenched that info thirst.
Since I detest mud (I'm STILL cleaning Toroweep off the Sub 3 weeks later and now the trash Co. won't dump my yard waste bin) I do not venture into water that isn't obviously less than ~18" deep. If I can't see the bottom I'm extremely hesitant to cross. It just isn't worth it to me.

 

[IH8RDS]

Hey

I think the orginal point I was making has already been made but to reply to what's been said.

Ih8rds says: 2 times it was dropping into a river where the bank was steep and once during a tropical storm. It was up to the windshield on the road! If I didn't have it I would not have been able to get gas for my generator.

If your concerned about being prepared for a tropical storm, shouldn't you have bought enough gas before the storm came?


If you guys want to buy a snorkel, winch, welder, beadlocks etc. I don't care. I have no problem about people being prepared, everybody should and their vehicle should built to be as capable as needed for the area's they go into (with common sense). Have you ever looked at the "OOPS" portion of one of the offroad mags and said to yourself "What a DumbA**" for going into that mess. Now if we can get back to the original posters comment about snorkels and forgetting our electronics. It's all good guys, we're all friends here. Happy Trails.

Pete Wilson

Day three of no power tends to eat up your fuel supply when your generator is running for 72 hours straight.

I think we where just answering your question. No harm here. You said you don't care or have a problem with snorkels so I guess you where just curios about snorkels or have snorkel envy... j/k :shakin:

I personally like the insurance of having a snorkel. :victory: