Sounds like FORD’s going to offer another engine choice for the Tremor

[(none)]

The 3.5 makes a ton of torque, no comparison, A 100ft more than the 5.0, that is a lot. The relation between the two are a funny thing. The 5.0l will never tow as easy as the 3.5.

But that's the whole controversy right?

You have a motor that has great power, but is very complex, generates a lot of heat and gets very poor gas mileage when worked hard BUT is easy to drive.

The 5.0 may not beat the 3.5 up the side of a mountain, but is perceived to be less complex (so it's assumed to be more reliable in the long term), gas mileage stays more consistent?, and in the end why is everyone so scared to rev their motors? 4500rpms for a quad cam v8 with a 6500 rpm readline is nothing. It can do it all day and be fine...as long as temps stay in line. And the 3.5 seems to have more of an issue keeping temps in line while going up the mountain at 3k rpms. Even the TFL vids show them getting quite warm.

Someone feel free to correct me. I was looking for a new F150 a month or two ago and the choice between the two motors was the toughest decision.

 

[Dougnuts]

One thing about the fuel economy of a 3.5TT, under boost….At 15psi, it’s essentially a 7.0L engine. That’s going to make some heat and use some fuel.

 

[FordGuy1]

But that's the whole controversy right?

You have a motor that has great power, but is very complex, generates a lot of heat and gets very poor gas mileage when worked hard BUT is easy to drive.

The 5.0 may not beat the 3.5 up the side of a mountain, but is perceived to be less complex (so it's assumed to be more reliable in the long term), gas mileage stays more consistent?, and in the end why is everyone so scared to rev their motors? 4500rpms for a quad cam v8 with a 6500 rpm readline is nothing. It can do it all day and be fine...as long as temps stay in line. And the 3.5 seems to have more of an issue keeping temps in line while going up the mountain at 3k rpms. Even the TFL vids show them getting quite warm.

Someone feel free to correct me. I was looking for a new F150 a month or two ago and the choice between the two motors was the toughest decision.

I run two Ford stores, so it makes it even worse, because I only see problems. What really had me change my mind was driving a 2022 with the 5.0l, it just drove better to me, and the 10spd is definitely better and smoother in the 5.0. I am sure that is due to how hard the turbos kick i, and the torque is instant. I love the 3.5l, but the 5.0 is just fun, and it revs awesome.

 

[zoomad75]

I'm a bit perplexed by the torque curves K&N came up with and it makes me wonder if they somehow modified the vehicles they tested (as in using K&N intakes).

I did a lot of research before buying my F150 with the 3.5 Ecoboost in 2016. One of the reasons I went with this engine were all the owners that were happy about how this engine towed WITHOUT needing to rev high as did the Coyote engine. I still follow the F150 forums and this still holds true. The 3.5 Ecoboost is known for "diesel-like" low rpm torque when pulling a load, whereas the Coyote needs to rev. That is the consensus of most of the owners. So how do I reconcile what the owners say (and my own experience) versus what is show on these torque graphs? It doesn't make sense. TFL did a test towing a load up I-70 in the Colorado mountains, comparing the 3.5 Ecoboost to the Coyote that you can find on line. They mention during that test how much more power the Ecoboost has at lower rpms than the V8. Going up that mountain the Ecoboost was running ~ 3000 rpm in 5th or 6th gear to maintain the speed limit. The V8 had to turn 4500 rpm to run that same speed, running in 3rd and 4th gear.

So it seems to me you'll be "revving the snot" out of the V8, not the V6. Real world results.

I don't have dog in the hunt. I agree the results are odd and in the face of real world results. I would guess there's a difference in gearing between the v8 and the v6 setups that could change where each would work within the meat of their respective torque curves.

But what to I know. I drive a fuel guzzling K5 with an 8.1 big block.

 

[Grassland]

If all goes well and new truck prices go back to normal late next year, as in where they where early 2020, I'll worry about engine decisions then.
In all likelihood it will still be a 2.7 for me, since 7k towing is the most I'll need.
Both the 5.0 and the 3.5EB have more than enough jam for a half ton.

 

[justinh]

I have a 2017 Raptor and LOVE my eco boost. With exhaust, intake, boost tubes, turbo adapters and a Cobb Tuner it is WAY faster than anything this size be. My truck has the beadlocks and 35x12.50 Toyo tires and I see 17 mpg on the highway running 80ish. If I keep it closer to the speed limit its a little better.

I'll hit 140k miles this week. I had the phasers done at 134k, no performance issues but the rattle was there and I have an extended warranty.

my BIL upgraded from a 16 F150 with the 5.0 to an 18 or 19 last year with the 2.7 and loves it.

 

[Todd780]

The 5.0 in the 2021 F150 is not simple. It now has cylinder deactivation.
Pretty sure the GM 5.3 or Caddy 4-6-8 guys can tell you how well that worked out.

The big change for 2021 Ford F-150 5.0L V-8 isn't horsepower - Pickup Truck +SUV Talk

The new 2021 Ford F-150 has a host of changes including a controversial new one for the 5.0L V-8 Coyote engine.

pickuptrucktalk.com

 

[Todd780]

I'm a bit perplexed by the torque curves K&N came up with and it makes me wonder if they somehow modified the vehicles they tested (as in using K&N intakes).

I did a lot of research before buying my F150 with the 3.5 Ecoboost in 2016. One of the reasons I went with this engine were all the owners that were happy about how this engine towed WITHOUT needing to rev high as did the Coyote engine. I still follow the F150 forums and this still holds true. The 3.5 Ecoboost is known for "diesel-like" low rpm torque when pulling a load, whereas the Coyote needs to rev. That is the consensus of most of the owners. So how do I reconcile what the owners say (and my own experience) versus what is show on these torque graphs? It doesn't make sense. TFL did a test towing a load up I-70 in the Colorado mountains, comparing the 3.5 Ecoboost to the Coyote that you can find on line. They mention during that test how much more power the Ecoboost has at lower rpms than the V8. Going up that mountain the Ecoboost was running ~ 3000 rpm in 5th or 6th gear to maintain the speed limit. The V8 had to turn 4500 rpm to run that same speed, running in 3rd and 4th gear.

So it seems to me you'll be "revving the snot" out of the V8, not the V6. Real world results.

I've found this as well. I think those charts are reveresed or somehow mixed up.

My previous truck was a 5.0L and towing was constantly in the 4,000 rpm range. Doing the same trips with this truck which has the 3.5 I'm in the 2,000 rpm range. (Trailer is a 5,500 lb loaded 23 footer) I went with the 5.0 in my last truck for the reasons stated above. But, now after owning and towing with a 3.5 I wouldn't go back to the V8.

To each their own, if you prefer the V8, get it. It's great to have choices!

I always find it funny to hear people be concerned over the turbos when it never is mentioned when it comes to Cummins, PowerStroke or Duramax reliability. Kinda seems like a double standard to me.

 

[deserteagle56]

I don't have dog in the hunt. I agree the results are odd and in the face of real world results. I would guess there's a difference in gearing between the v8 and the v6 setups that could change where each would work within the meat of their respective torque curves.

But what to I know. I drive a fuel guzzling K5 with an 8.1 big block.

I hear you!

One of my other rigs has the 6.8 V-10 in it, with 4.56 gears. Yet it shifts down going over any mountain pass - the engine doesn't seem to make power unless it is turning close to 4000 rpm. Which is why I am so happy with the 3.5 Ecoboost. 3.55 gears behind that engine - yet it never seems to need to shift down over those same mountain passes. And the difference in fuel mileage is substantial. Over 70000 miles the overall fuel mileage of the V-10 is 11.8. Over 64000 miles the Ecoboost's overall fuel mileage is 20.5.

 

[deserteagle56]

I always find it funny to hear people be concerned over the turbos when it never is mentioned when it comes to Cummins, PowerStroke or Duramax reliability. Kinda seems like a double standard to me.

Exactly! I've owned turbodiesels for many years. Own two of them right now. One thing I've never had is a problem with a turbo.

 

[Todd780]

Exactly! I've owned turbodiesels for many years. Own two of them right now. One thing I've never had is a problem with a turbo.

I think the only turbo that gave me grief was in a 301 - turbo T/A I owned in like '97 - '98. Mind you, I was guessing the turbo didn't work because the car was gutless.... Could just been the fact it was a clapped out 301...

 

[Explorerinil]

The 5.0 in the 2021 F150 is not simple. It now has cylinder deactivation.
Pretty sure the GM 5.3 or Caddy 4-6-8 guys can tell you how well that worked out.

The big change for 2021 Ford F-150 5.0L V-8 isn't horsepower - Pickup Truck +SUV Talk

The new 2021 Ford F-150 has a host of changes including a controversial new one for the 5.0L V-8 Coyote engine.

pickuptrucktalk.com

Your correct, it’s a very complex engine, also duel over head cams, cam phasers, etc. I’m at 37k on my 5.0, it’s on its second engine and second set of cams, it’s been a constant problem. My buddy that had a 2.7 f150 and now a 3.5, never had a single problem with either of those trucks. He runs them hard, and takes them to the cheapest quick lube place for an oil change, that being said, maintainance is fair at best. If take a 2.7 or 3.5 over the 5.0 any day.

 

[Explorerinil]

Exactly! I've owned turbodiesels for many years. Own two of them right now. One thing I've never had is a problem with a turbo.

I owned turbo diesel trucks for 20 years or so, I never had a turbo problem. My buddy has ran a ram cummins that he’s keeping “forever”, he bought it in 07, it’s an early truck with the 5.9. Still completely stock and still runs great, never had a wrench on the engine, can’t say that for the tie rods, ball joints, hubs and trans though.

 

[Grassland]

Yeah I don't hear tons about turbo failures on the EB engines.
It's cam phasers and timing chains on the 3.5, and way back on the first gen the issues with sucking in water from the intercooler prior to the weep hole. That's majority of what I've absorbed over the years while online, and my friends second gen going in multiple times.
Ford had to do something for 5.0 fuel economy, with all the cars gone, they have to get the average fuel economy numbers up. Hence cylinder deactivation.

And even V-twin motorcycles have cylinder deactivation now, but I don't think it's for fuel economy. Indian Chief line up offers it anyway.

 

[Todd780]

Exactly! I've owned turbodiesels for many years. Own two of them right now. One thing I've never had is a problem with a turbo.

I owned turbo diesel trucks for 20 years or so, I never had a turbo problem. My buddy has ran a ram cummins that he’s keeping “forever”, he bought it in 07, it’s an early truck with the 5.9. Still completely stock and still runs great, never had a wrench on the engine, can’t say that for the tie rods, ball joints, hubs and trans though.

Yep, from my experience it seems injectors give more grief on diesels than turbos.
At least that was the case with the Duramax... That's going back a few years though. Not sure what any of themodern diesels are like.