The Great On Board Shower Debate

[spressomon]

I'm far from unbiased, but I really have been satisfied with my Helton unit, its been installed for 3-4 years now without a hitch. The units themselves come in a handful of different configurations, some providing more hear than others, different fitting setups, etc. I'll be the first to say their pump system is a bit on the light duty end, though amazingly there are alot of them in service without problems (I have had a few come back dead though). For someone that will be using the shower on a regular basiw, I recommend the Helton exchanger (pick your flavor) and a different pump setup, easy to plumb, easy to mount, set it and forget it. For me it is one less thing to load and one less thing to forget

To the comment on "your motor will be idling for hours", well thats a bit deceptive. Do you plans ALL your vehicle mods around your entire group? Do you carry their spare parts? spare fuel? food? Thats like buying the 80 Qt Engel because your the only one that carries a fridge If your going to need that much hot water, easy, pre-heat a container of water. You can turn the pump on, drop the shower head back into your source and cycle the closed loop to preheat the entire bucket or container of water, takes a couple of minutes and your set.

My wife and I can shower twice each on 5 gallons of water, so for a 4-5 day trip we shower every other day. Thats a pretty conservative shower, get wet, soap up, quick rinse. When we are close to water, we get some nice leisure 100* showers . There are truthfully very few places (at least in my locals) that you can park within 10' of a good water source, so I've been packing a 5 gallon bucket in the trailer, easy to stow (fill it with other stuff) and you can ferry a bucket at a time from a nearby river or lake and take a nice leisure shower without using your fresh water. I've done the same using a Scepter can, unscrew the lid and sink it for a minute... I stopped doing this as I was worried about contaminating my cans (giardia, etc). I've even used the water out of my cooler for a quick rinse

I agree...the HH has been reliable and performs as advertised. The pump leaves a little to be desired IMO...but it is compact and relatively cheap.

Things got a bit more complex when I decided I had to make for a more efficient shower/water usage by upping the PSI with a larger pump to lower the flow rate (which has indeed provided more efficient use of water and getting a better spray)...that is too large to be mounted in my already cramped engine bay.

So now the pump is mounted in the nose box of my AT. I will be testing this new set-up over the next 5-days on a back country trip...what works great in the garage sometimes doesn't perform as well or as intended in the outback ;-). I suspect further refinement will be in order.

lowenbrau: Thanks for your info. I will check into them to see if they offer any advantages above and beyond my current setup.

 

[lowenbrau]

To the comment on "your motor will be idling for hours", well thats a bit deceptive. Do you plans ALL your vehicle mods around your entire group? Do you carry their spare parts? spare fuel? food? Thats like buying the 80 Qt Engel because your the only one that carries a fridge

I often carry tools/parts that I don't need but I fear somebody on my run will need. Nobody gets left behind on one of my runs. Similarly if somebody runs out of food or drink and I have some, they are covered. I often supply ice from my freezer to people whose coolers are getting warm. I wouldn't dream about taking a shower and then not offering one to anybody who was feeling dirty. In my experience you can cycle people through in about ten minutes each by the time they get into the tent and get undressed, showered, toweled and dressed again.

My experience is that once the shower is set up, Its going to be running for quite a while and I have no problem with that.

 

[shartzer]

For those of you using a heat exchanger style shower (Helton ect..), does the water ever get to hot, is it just barely tolerable, or is it fairly comfortable under normal usage?

I have been contemplating a simple water system using the built in oil cooler located in the radiator that I no longer use. Basically it would be like the Helton except the heat exchanger already exist and would be nicely packaged in the radiator outlet tank. My initial thought was that I would use a valve to mix the unheated supply water with supply water to adjust temperature. From listening to this discussion though it sounds like under normal conditions the water does not get to hot. Maybe mine would be to cold since it is coming from the cool side of the radiator.

Any thoughts? Anyone ever do anything similar? It could be just the ticket for a really simple system for me though.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

I often carry tools/parts that I don't need but I fear somebody on my run will need. Nobody gets left behind on one of my runs. Similarly if somebody runs out of food or drink and I have some, they are covered. I often supply ice from my freezer to people whose coolers are getting warm. I wouldn't dream about taking a shower and then not offering one to anybody who was feeling dirty. In my experience you can cycle people through in about ten minutes each by the time they get into the tent and get undressed, showered, toweled and dressed again.

My experience is that once the shower is set up, Its going to be running for quite a while and I have no problem with that.

I understand, my comment was more "toungue in cheek" I too carry alot of stuff I would likely need. However there is a fundemental difference in helping a mate of the trail and making sure they stay showered . I won't knowingly go on a long trail with someone that "expects" others to have all their needs covered, just as I wouldn't expect anyone to hold my hand for the trip. There is no doubt in my mind that an 80qt freezer/fridge would get filled up with mine and others goods on a long trip, doesn't mean I'll be out replacing my smaller unit anytime soon

I've had 7 people use my shower for a full-on cleaning... it actually went pretty quick, hand the shower head around the circle as the others are soaping, etc. Not the long leisure sing to yourself shower you get at home, but we are camping afterall

 

[spressomon]

For those of you using a heat exchanger style shower (Helton ect..), does the water ever get to hot, is it just barely tolerable, or is it fairly comfortable under normal usage?

I have been contemplating a simple water system using the built in oil cooler located in the radiator that I no longer use. Basically it would be like the Helton except the heat exchanger already exist and would be nicely packaged in the radiator outlet tank. My initial thought was that I would use a valve to mix the unheated supply water with supply water to adjust temperature. From listening to this discussion though it sounds like under normal conditions the water does not get to hot. Maybe mine would be to cold since it is coming from the cool side of the radiator.

Any thoughts? Anyone ever do anything similar? It could be just the ticket for a really simple system for me though.

The best way to ensure the proper water temp for your needs is to cycle the water through the HH (or any heat exchanger) as flow through/into a bucket. And then pump your shower from this source. Otherwise your temp will be X degrees heated above its base/source temp...this is the best method for me to avoid too hot/too cold and/or scalding hot when you use the shower on/off to conserve water.

 

[the dude]

I just picked up CIM (China Industrial & Marine ) submersible bilge pump $29 from the great Princess Auto. I also got some hose, shower head and fittings for another $20. They only had 1.5" flat hose and I needed 1"

The bilge pump is rated at 12V, 7.8Amps, with an outlet of 11/8" and 2000GPH claiming a 4M head delivery. There is also mention of a 24V available. I can't believe there is that much difference between the pumps. The engrish in the manual is a little hard to understand.

So it looks like I am in just around $200 for the set up if the bilge pump will work.

 

[UK4X4]

For a heat exchanger its relatively easy to make your own out of standard fittings, copper, steel or SS depending on how much you want to spend.

large tube for shower water
small bore tube for engine coolant

2 T pieces that fit the large tube, and two reducers from large tube T to smaller bore engine coolant line.

The smaller tube goes all the way through the other parts slide over the top a

Copper would be pretty cheap, and effective, made up in solder plumbing fittings.

Or you could go parker or swagelock SS steel....

mmmm I'm gona have to check the works fitting collection

 

[greybrick]

A 4 gallon plastic pail with warm water and a sponge has always worked well for us.

.

 

[Corey]

Still undecided yet on what make to get.
If I am near a creek/river as up where I do most of my exploring, I usually just go out into it and bathe

It is cold, but it gets the job done.
Fresh cold water melt off from Mt. Rainier.

 

[spressomon]

Still undecided yet on what make to get.
If I am near a creek/river as up where I do most of my exploring, I usually just go out into it and bathe

It is cold, but it gets the job done.
Fresh cold water melt off from Mt. Rainier.

Glacial water...ooooo...shiver me timber :Wow1:

 

[cruiseroutfit]

For a heat exchanger its relatively easy to make your own out of standard fittings, copper, steel or SS depending on how much you want to spend.

How much suface to surface contact does your idea provide? Is the freshwater tube the same length as the coolant? If so you wouldn't be getting a very efficient heat exhange, the tube in shell style which you describe require alot more surface area contant than that, something more like 5:1 or more I would think. I could get my thermodynamics book out

 

[UK4X4]

Ah if you want an efficient version......then yes you'l need a little more rocket science....

I was thinking along the lines of cold water becomming warm....for $ 30

rather than a full on hot shower, with soap on a rope and a loufa:arabia:


So yes in order to improve heat transfer that are many routes to take

thinner walls
slower shower flow
faster engine coolant flow
more heat transfer area
convoluted fluid flow
oposing flow regime.

Now what could be quite neat.........

My landy's rad is just for water....

a chevy suburbun rad has two extra connections for an interior transmission cooler..... a little plumbing and your done..

 

[cruiseroutfit]

...a chevy suburbun rad has two extra connections for an interior transmission cooler..... a little plumbing and your done..

I'd be interested to hear more from those that have used a radiator with a built in trans cooler for their heat exchanger. The few I have heard of didn't get quite the results they were looking for, while it heated the water, it wasn't as much as they anticipated and it would require several passes to obtain hot water. Its going to vary widely with the make/model of the radiator used, I know the Land Cruiser ones won't offer too much heat.

 

[the dude]

This has also been the case with simple 4 little tubes to one big tube home made heat exchangers i have seen, they just aren't efficient enough. I have seen a couple on pirate (i think) that work well, but are fairly involved in making.

 

[UK4X4]

Ref the radiator installed heat exchanger, and or a $ 30 thrown together heat exchanger

no your right I'm not sure if you'd get a 100oF shower for 14 mins at 900rpm..and 3 gallons a minute



The idea's are sound....... they would heat water...

the exact specifics and thermal calculations I'll leave to some one else.

What denotes a shower ?

People on this site are wide and varied in background, the size of their toy fund and have diferent perceptions of what a shower might be...and what they are willing to pay over and above the flannel and a pot of water.......

I'd be happy with luke warm over glacia runoff, 2 mins is good with me.

Most people here do a max 7 day trip, in the boonies, where a semi warm, quick splash would suffice, to get rid of trail dust and clean the parts that require cleaning.

If your talking 6 months on the road with no hotels, no swimming pools, no rivers or lakes........(you took the wrong turn):elkgrin: ...

Where a full blown system as per the house shower is required.......get out the check book, as it won't be cheap.