The Other Black Rifle...

gophere

Adventurer
Some of mine are black, some of mine are not. . .
4_7.jpg

Ooooo, I just got to run one of those this morning at the range. Had to trade my buddy some ammo for gun time, but it was a smooth shooter for sure. The normal ar buffer 'ping' and receiver 'shift' were almost nonexistent. Its still not a M&P though so cant say too much good about it:p

sent from montana, usa
 

earthmuffin

Observer
I've been shooting a muzzle stuffer for a couple years now and it finally put a pile of elk in my freezer this fall.
I love it. It is simple, yet complex all at the same time.
Mine is a modern inline.
 

ol' scott

Adventurer
I don't own black rifles of any sort. However, the few times I have fired one (of the OP's intent) I have enjoyed it. Must be something about PA that brings out the black powder lovers as the rifles I have fired have been from there and they were all handed down from previous generations. There was something about the puff of smoke and the amount of time that goes into loading that made shooting the rifle quaint. Will I own one? Probably not for awhile, there are other rifles on my list earlier (none black though). But when one is shot I will line up early to get my chance at it.
 

grizzlyj

Tea pot tester
Stupid question, but do you have to load it only when you're about to shoot? Or can you walk around with it ready to go?

:)
 

Haggis

Appalachian Ridgerunner
Stupid question, but do you have to load it only when you're about to shoot? Or can you walk around with it ready to go?

:)

My mama always said there's no stupid questions only stupid answers...so I'll lay out a basic primer for how a black powder gun operates.


First....clean, clean, clean...Black powder guns don't like gunk and to insure that no hang fire (doesn't go off when the trigger is pulled) occurs the barrel and touch hole are cleaned well before loading.

Second....charge the rifle with black powder. Black powder comes in different grains or coarseness's. FFFF, FFF, FF are the primary grains used for hunting. The lesser the number of Fs the coarser and more potent the powder is. So for hunting purposes we use FF for its more potent explosive capabilities. FFF is used for target and competition shooting as it is more consistent in performance. For hunting the rule of thumb is to use a charge, measured in grains, twice that as the calibre of the rifle. So if your using a .50 cal rifle you use 100 grs of FF black powder. Everything is measured with brass, horn or wood utensils so there is no chance for a spark. That would be bad.

Third...set the ball. Now you insert the ball into the snout of the barrel. The ball can be a traditional round ball that is surround with a greased cotton round patch. This patch acts as a sabot to tightly seal the projectile in the barrel. Or you could use a Maxi-ball, it looks like a circumference grooved bullet, with a good coating of grease. The Maxiball fits tighter than a round ball and only needs the grease to seal and the grease also helps ease the ramming of the ball down. These days I use a Powerbelt maxiball that has a plastic sabot at the balls bottom, this acts as the seal and is a more accurate projectile than the traditional balls. It also is easier to clean up after. Once you set the ball into the snout you use a small ramrod to initially start the ball down the barrel. This is mainly so you don't tweak your main, long ramrod and snap it in half trying to seat the ball. Once the ball is started and is approximately 6" down the barrel you use your main ramrod, which hitches a ride under the barrel of the gun, to firmly seat the bullet against the black powder charge. Failure to fully seat the ball will leave a cavity between the charge and the ball and will cause all kinds of bad things to happen as in a barrel explosion.

Fourth...Charge the gun. To fire the gun you need a primary explosion to ignite the charge in the barrel. On a percussion gun a small brass cap filled with powder fits over a nipple and is struck by the hammer to ignite the primary charge. On a flintlock this is done by putting a small amount of FFFF powder, it burns the fastest, in the frizzen pan. The frizzen pan is the lock mechanism where the flint holding hammer is. There is a depression in the frizzen pan that holds the powder and the striker closes over top of it to keep the powder in there. The striker is the surface the hammer hits to make a spark and ignite the powder in the frizzen pan. The hammer has a clamp which hold a piece of knapped flint, when the trigger is pulled the hammer falls causing the flint to spark off the striker while it pushes the striker plate back to expose the frizzen charge. The frizzen charge goes off, travels through the touch hole in the barrel and ignites the main charge within the barrel and out flies the ball. Dead deer walking...

Fifth...clean, clean, clean and reload. Experinced shooters can do this remarkablely fast, newbies are fun to watch.

Now as far as use the gun is loaded and charged when your hunting, There's is a charge in the barrel and powder in the frizzen. The hammer has three positions, Cocked, Half Cocked, and rest. Rest is the position when the hammer has no tension on it and rests down in the frizzen after it has been fired. Cocked is the hammer fully pulled back and ready to fire. Half cooked is where the gun is almost ready to go and is the position that is used while carrying the gun on a hunt. There are two triggers on a black powder rifle...the set and the fire triggers. To fire the gun you must pull back the hammer to the cocked position, pull the rear trigger, this is the set, to ready the fire trigger. Once the set trigger is engaged touching the firing trigger release the hammer and there's a loud report and white smoke everywhere. Fire triggers are normally hair triggers, but can be adjusted to suit the shooter.

So when your hunting the gun is loaded, there's powder in the pan, and the hammer is at half cocked. Rain or snow in the frizzen is bad, wet powder don't burn don't ya know. Spot deer, shoulder gun, cock hammer, set set trigger, touch off firing trigger, be temporarily blinded by smoke, go get deer, skin, butcher, package, freeze, thaw, cook ,eat. Such is life in the Pennsylvania woods. :elkgrin:
 
Last edited:

grizzlyj

Tea pot tester
Thank you again Sir :)

I hadn't twigged the ball would need help to seal against the barrel, and hadn't heard of a sabot. Shocking huh.

Reading Wiki too it suggested barrels would get badly clogged if a soldiers required rate of fire prevented cleaning, so do you think a ball used in those days would be smaller than the ones used today relative to any given barrel diameter, just to get more shots between cleaning?

I don't get why the FF would be more powerful even though as you say FFFF burns faster? Smaller particles would compact down too, less air so more stuff to burn? Or more air with FF actually making more bang with more O2? More O2 spreading the burn more evenly?

Will the ball fall out with the muzzle pointed down out of the rain?

Do you cover the frizzen in the rain?

How crucial is the shape of the flint?

:)
 

Haggis

Appalachian Ridgerunner
I hadn't twigged...

Now that's a term I've never heard before.

Reading Wiki too it suggested barrels would get badly clogged if a soldiers required rate of fire prevented cleaning, so do you think a ball used in those days would be smaller than the ones used today relative to any given barrel diameter, just to get more shots between cleaning?

No, because a smaller ball would require a thicker patch to be constrictive enough in the barrel to contain the explosive discharge when the guns fire. A thicker patch means a less accurate projectile. A lose ball wouldn't seal the explosion and it would let the pressure slip past the ball thus reducing its kinetic energy or worse yet it might leave the ball stuck in the barrel. A ball needs to be loose enough to easily ram down the barrel yet tight enough to contain the pressure of the exploding charge. There's no sense in firing a gun if the looseness of the ball does not permit it enough kinetic energy to get the job done. Beside a bigger mass does more damage. Also in military arms there was a good reason that there was a pointy bayonet at the end of their armes.

I don't get why the FF would be more powerful even though as you say FFFF burns faster? Smaller particles would compact down too, less air so more stuff to burn? Or more air with FF actually making more bang with more O2? More O2 spreading the burn more evenly?

The coarse grain powder is stouter because each individual grain has more potential energy than a smaller, finer grain. A smaller finer grains burns more quickly because the spark doesn't have as much potential energy to overcome to start the ignition process. Take two tomatoes, one small one larger. and then proceed to slap them against your forehead one at a time. Which one is going to make the more mess and splatter? Same principle applies with explosions.

Will the ball fall out with the muzzle pointed down out of the rain?

No. Remember the ball needs to be sealed tightly to the barrel and its bore to entrap the pressures of the explosion that send the projectile ballistic.

Do you cover the frizzen in the rain?

You can. There are accessories that fit over the lock mechanism and the stock that cover the frizzen in bad conditions. They have a top cover that lets you access the hammer when you need to fire. Die hard reinactors will use a small trade blanket or a piece of beaver hide to cover the frizzen when its narsty outside.

How crucial is the shape of the flint?

Its pretty important as the flint needs to have enough edge to easily spark but not so much that it breaks. In side profile a flit looks like a parallelagram.
 
Last edited:

Haggis

Appalachian Ridgerunner
This thread needs a few more pics..so here's a reference pic so folks can follow along with my rambling thoughts...

These are your typical black powder projectiles...

DSC00132_zps609e781b.jpg


From left to right......traditional round ball......maxi ball......modern powerbelt.​
 

grizzlyj

Tea pot tester
How much rattle does the ball have with no wadding then? It must have some if any clogging can happen at all?

Although one big grain has more energy than one small one, small grains will be denser so you can get a bigger weight of small grains behind the ball, so I don't get that, and have no large tomatoes. I'll get some tomorrow to experiment :)

Do all three in your pic use the same wadding, or no wadding with the plastic bits?
 

Forum statistics

Threads
186,158
Messages
2,882,631
Members
225,984
Latest member
taunger
Top