The Post-Propane Lifestyle

[pugslyyy]

If it is illegal can someone please point me to the code? I'm just not seeing where it is illegal for a consumer to refill their own bottles for their own use, and transport their own refilled bottles for their own use.

The refill adapter are readily available in outdoors stores.

Even Coleman states "Federal law forbids transportation of this size of cylinder (type 39 DOT cylinder) if it has been refilled, therefore refilling is not practical or recommended", which only applies to commercial interstate travel.

Laws can be very different when you do things for profit - take for example all the vehicle regulations and the exceptions that RVs get from all the truck codes.

 

[IdaSHO]

If it is illegal can someone please point me to the code? .

Uh...
posted just a few posts previous.

You have to click the link

Its right in the code book.

section 7.2.2.8

http://inferno4.spffa.com/pdf/nfpacodes/nfpa_58.pdf

 

[pugslyyy]

Uh...
posted just a few posts previous.

You have to click the link

I read it. The whole thing (pretty much). It seems to be good guidance for the Hank Hills of the world, i.e. people who are selling propane / installing propane accessories for profit.

What I'm asking for (for example) is the code that the state of North Carolina is going to cite me for violating if I elect to replenish a small propane cylinder that I purchased, from a larger propane cylinder that I purchased, and the penalties that would result.

 

[IdaSHO]

Your not going to find it.

That would be like finding the same for replacing a light switch not per building code.


Just as I said, this is CODE.

And once any state that has adopted said code, it is law.


Regardless of how it is enforced.

 

[pugslyyy]

Your not going to find it.

That would be like finding the same for replacing a light switch not per building code.


Just as I said, this is CODE.

And once any state that has adopted said code, it is law.


Regardless of how it is enforced.

All laws have enforcement provisions. Anything else is a suggestion.

If you violate a municipality's building code, there are enforcement provisions for violations and penalties for noncompliance.


For example, wrt the disposable bottles, 49 U.S.C. 5124 indicates a fine of up to $500,000 and 5 years in prison for commercial transportation of refilled DOT-39 NRC 232/290 cylinders.

 

[IdaSHO]

There is a BIG difference between adopting a code and passing a law.


Each and every law that is passed will have thorough enforcement provisions.

Not the case when adopting a book of codes. Most will fall into the category of "code violation"


Laws are enforced by "law enforcement"

For the most part code enforcement land in the hands of local agencies that deal specifically with those codes.

Like my example using a simple residential building code.

You will not have a police officer write you a ticket for wiring a home not to code.
What is more likely is that you will have a building inspector call you out on it,
and if you do not fix it to his satisfaction, he will first get a stop work order in place,
then proceed to take you to court.


Like I said. Adopting a code and passing a law are apples to oranges.

 

[Honu]

from what I understood its not people going camping that cant transport its companies like UPS or other companies selling the refilled bottles and then transporting those

can you fill a large propane tank and then send it full in the mail ? I dont know but I somehow doubt it quite highly

 

[IdaSHO]

can you fill a large propane tank and then send it full in the mail ? I dont know but I somehow doubt it quite highly

You can ship pretty much anything anywhere provided you follow the rules to the T.

Each carrier has very specific guidelines, and not all of them are the same.


But Id have to say, a large volume tank with ANY propane in it is a no-no.




I deal with these types of problems in my line of work quite often.


Say, buying a shipment of BIC lighters.


To meet the hazardous class requirements that apply.

None of it can ship AIR.

And traditionally it cannot ship TRUCK (due to total volume of butane and the potential lack of HA-MAT LTL trucks available locally to deliver it)

So it comes in UPS GROUND, in 75 different boxes, all wrapped up with fancy HAZ MAT tape and warnings :Wow1:

 

[life_w_vagabonds]

Refilling 1LB tanks...

I don't believe you are actually getting liquid in them, you are only transferring vapor from the 20lb tank. Don't imagine your getting much more than a fart in there, no matter if you are freezing the tank or standing on your head. Conversely if you are getting liquid in the bottle and your carrying THAT around inside your vehicle remember propane boils at room temperature, and expands 270 times.

Smoke if you got 'em

 

[IdaSHO]

Refilling 1LB tanks...

I don't believe you are actually getting liquid in them, you are only transferring vapor from the 20lb tank.

your doing it wrong it you only get vapor.


When you fill them you turn the large tank up side down to fill the small tank with LIQUID.

 

[life_w_vagabonds]

your doing it wrong it you only get vapor.




When you fill them you turn the large tank up side down to fill the small tank with LIQUID.

Great do the math on how much vapor could be let loose inside the vehicle with you. If your getting over 80% liquid you are overfilling. That shrader valve is not a pop off. Keep your windows down and hope its sunny.

Volume of cylinder X 270 which could be the entire cylinder given there is no OPD or scale involved.

Worth saving $4? Not going to put that in the same vehicle my family is in.

Not an expert but I delivered propane for a few years. Do what you want its a freeish country, not for me though.

 

[IdaSHO]

Nobody said the valve is a pop-off.
And finding a leaky valve is very simple.
Soap and water, spit on your finger, it really doesnt take much. Really.


And you are making some large assumptions, for whatever reason.
I know how to refill them.


They never exceed the factory filled weight.

I use a digital postal scale for filling.

Empty weighs 385 grams
"full" factory weight is right about 800 grams.

Can you do subtraction?


Also, when doing it correctly, you CANNOT overfill it.

See the pretty picture....

The bleed valve pointed 12 oclock, on the "top" of the small tank.


BTW.... Backpacking over the last 20 years or so I have gone through HUNDREDS of these tanks.
I have a set of 8 or so, that get refilled, and refilled, and refilled.

Store purchased costs more then 3x what it does home refill.

Ill never purchase new.

 

[dwh]

It's not rocket science. Or magic. Nothing wrong with refilled tank if it's done right. Just as "safe" as a factory filled propane bomb.

Blah blah blah.

Where's the pics of the new stove? That's what I wanna see!

 

[GregSplett]

.

I am hoping to see it to.I switched from alcohol to wood for my back packing and have been doing a lot more of my camping cooking on the fire.

I used to refill my own until one filed my Subaru with propane.Now i am nervous just disconnecting one and storing it.For the most part I just use the 2.5 or the 5 gallon bottles.I can shut them off.

 

[carbon60]

Where's the pics of the new stove? That's what I wanna see!

Are you guys talking about my new stove?