Tow strap vs. Kinetic rope

[ryguy]

Lets not get the grammar police involved

 

[I Leak Oil]

Lets not get the grammar police involved

You forgot the period. You must be an idiot. (Just kidding)
:snorkel:

 

[ryguy]

You forgot the period. You must be an idiot. (Just kidding)
:snorkel:

 

[Mike_rupp]

Scott, maybe it's me. After years of dealing with manufacturer's data sheets, I've come to think of the word nominal as way of distinguishing the value from a real value. For example, a manufacturer will list nominal values for various properties on it's data sheet. Those values are nominal because they represent the value and aren't a measured value. It might list the flexural modulus as 250kpsi, but the measured (real) value might end up as 255kpsi.

Sorry for taking the thread off on a tangent.

 

[Master-Pull]

people do dumb things all the time, I have seen many pics of a major national instructor using a strap to a highlift for a highlift winching demonstration.

in that video posted by master pull the length and the amount of stretch in the kinetic strap with a big incline off the other side of the road is a catotrophic accident waiting to happen.

also when using a kinetic strap you are trying to just break the stuck truck loose.

If you watch the video once he breaks the cherokee loose the cherokee slids into the inclined ditch and he continues to keep pulling. This is a real bad idea, this is when a wheel grabs the steering wheel twists hard in the drivers hands and now the direction of the truck is hard to control or predict.

Honestly it wasn't that dangerous or scary at all. The reason he kept dragging is because I started to bog down again and would have kept digging myself in. The snow at that point was a few months old, had rain on it a few times and was very very wet and heavy. We never exceded more then a few MPH during the recovery, both of us had complete control of our vehicles during the entire event.

-Alex

 

[Master-Pull]

x2 Thom!

With all due respect to the "Masterpull Guy" - that is one of the scariest recoveries I have seen! Also, why was there someone with a camera that close to a recovery, and why would a man(Masterpull Guy) stick his head out of the window and look backwards while he is driving forwards to effect a recovery? What do you do for Masterpull and do they know you're representing their product in a public forum?

Next time, use a spotter. Don't be sticking your head out of the window only to catch a shackle to the face! I bet you could have just towed him out without immediately going to a dynamic pull. Use an "escalation of force" when it comes to a recovery: go from something as innocuous as maybe lowering tire pressure or using floor mats for a tractive surface, if that doesn't work try a nice slow static tow with a strap, if that doesn't work then maybe a dynamic "snatch", if that doesn't work then the winch, if that doesn't work, (or you have no winch), and you know how to use one properly us a HiLift as a winch. Why go right for the "nuclear option"?

(Give us a hint Thom: What instructor are you talking about?)

I am our Asst Director of Off-road Sales, and yes I am getting paid to do this. The President of MP reads these pages with me during work sometimes and knows what I am posting online. I was in the white jeep, watching one of our other employees pull me out. You can't call a recovery 'scary' from watching a low resolution shaky video, we were both in complete control the entire time that we were driving, and have experience with this equipment and performing recoveries of this nature. Before this video took place we took my vehicle and drove it into those snow banks a few times trying to get it as stuck as possible, we want our customers to know that we have thoroughly flogged our ropes and hardware before we sell it.

-Alex

 

[Antichrist]

we want our customers to know that we have thoroughly flogged our ropes and hardware before we sell it.

The problem is that you're also showing your customers several bad practices. It sounds like you all gave some thought to wanting to show the strength of the rope, but no thought to the other messages you were sending to possibly novice off-roaders.

 

[emmodg]

I am our Asst Director of Off-road Sales, and yes I am getting paid to do this. The President of MP reads these pages with me during work sometimes and knows what I am posting online. I was in the white jeep, watching one of our other employees pull me out. You can't call a recovery 'scary' from watching a low resolution shaky video, we were both in complete control the entire time that we were driving, and have experience with this equipment and performing recoveries of this nature. Before this video took place we took my vehicle and drove it into those snow banks a few times trying to get it as stuck as possible, we want our customers to know that we have thoroughly flogged our ropes and hardware before we sell it.

-Alex

Alex,

Am I to understand that Masterpull considers it safe and in control for a man to stand within striking distance of a KERR with a camera?

When one truck starts swinging around in a ditch with a KERR still attached you would consider that in complete control? 20 in your 1st video..)

You also had a "mystery" spotter in the background yelling direction - get the spotter out where both drivers can SEE him and use some hand signals.

Your representing a recovery gear manufacturer, you need to expect critical response to any of your recovery methods. Shaky video and shaky practices.

 

[muskyman]

Alex,

Am I to understand that Masterpull considers it safe and in control for a man to stand within striking distance of a KERR with a camera?

When one truck starts swinging around in a ditch with a KERR still attached you would consider that in complete control? 20 in your 1st video..)

You also had a "mystery" spotter in the background yelling direction - get the spotter out where both drivers can SEE him and use some hand signals.

Your representing a recovery gear manufacturer, you need to expect critical response to any of your recovery methods. Shaky video and shaky practices.

x2

Alex from your other posts on discoweb I think you are creating a pretty clear picture of someone that is out there winging it both with your posts on the internet and from the videos while wheeling and extracting trucks.

Slow down, think things through and pay attention to worst case scenerios.

Calling that recovery controlled is not very accurate IMHO.

I use a master pull line on my truck and think the product line is a quality one, but the correct choice of recovery method for a given situation is just as important. Small things like changing the angle of recovery can make the difference between a safe recovery and one that has the potential to damage a truck or worst case injure one of the people involved.

 

[Chas Stricker]

Howdy Alex,
I'd like to "test" one of your ropes. Do you advise against more than one strand? Oops, is that the wrong terminology? Pm me.
Thanks,
Chas

 

[Master-Pull]

The problem is that you're also showing your customers several bad practices. It sounds like you all gave some thought to wanting to show the strength of the rope, but no thought to the other messages you were sending to possibly novice off-roaders.

Thanks for the input, this winter we are going to shoot higher quality snow recovery videos with our Super Yankers and some other recovery equipment. So stay tuned.

-Alex

 

[IXNAYXJ]

Hey folks-

I just read this thread and am reminded of why I like ExPo as much as I do. There have been some very good points raised regarding the video Alex posted; while focusing on demonstrating the impressive properties of the Yanker, some basics and fundamentals were over looked. For that, I apologize. The video will be taken down tomorrow; I'd rather have nothing showing its use than showing potientally unsafe usage.

In Alex's defense, I know the spot where it was shot (it does look a great deal more trecherous in the video than in reality) and the people involved and I have high confidence that there was no appreciable risk to those involved. That being said, the video is coming down for the issues I mentioned above, to be replaced by one that more accurately and safely shows how to use the Master-Pull products.

Now that (I hope) that's settled, I'll leave you with a picture of a far more impressive use of the Master-Pull Super Yanker. The ~30,000 lbs RG-31 MRAP being extracted was completely stuck; without a kinetic strap this recovery would have required a lot more work as opposed to this one quick tug:

Thanks for patientence and attention to detail,

Matt Adair
Director, Off-Road Division
Master-Pull Recovery Gear
Matt@masterpull.com

 

[muskyman]

Looks like the subject videos went away?

or did they?

 

[IXNAYXJ]

Looks like the subject videos went away?

or did they?

Read my post just before yours; they were removed last week.

-----Matt-----

 

[leverett]

if you need to use a kenetic strap you need to let some one else recover the vehicle. they are one of the worst things you can use for recovery and very likely to snap after a short amount of use, recovery straps are more usefull cuz you can use then as an extended winch line plus they are cheaper just dont get one with hooks