Toyo Open Country Tires

[Redline]

No, my tire shop has not been using the super-duper adapter, just a good fit hub centric cone for balancing. I know this isn't the right way, but I really don't think balance was the problem with the Toyo MTs on the 4Runner.

All of my TRD wheels (and the stock wheels too) seem to balance fine using this 'normal' balancing method with all of the tires I have had mounted on these wheels. In the past 1.5-years the 4Runner has seen seven different sets of aftermarket tires pass under it (265/75 & 255/85) and I cant remember having a 'tire pull' problem with any of them except the Toyo 255/85R16. Though I thought my alignment was 'in-spec' I have learned that setting-up adjustable aftermarket A-arms can be tricky. I have a new alignment guy that I like very much. Even though the car may be 'in spec' per the machine that doesn't mean the previous tech got there using the optimum path. My new front-end guy is ‘the stuff'. I was having upper A-arm issues on the car during this time of tire pull. I thought the A-arms were set-up and aligned correctly but now I'm not certain.

Maybe the alignment was part of the tire pull problem, or maybe it wasn't. Again, there was/is no pulling with the Maxxis Bighorn's on the same wheels, balanced the same way by the same guys. But I'm willing to blame the A-Arms/Alignment until/if the Toyo MTs find their way back onto the 4Runner. For now the Toyos will stay on the F350, at least through hunting season, unless I don't get a cooling problem fixed, in which case the 4Runner may go hunting this year

Redline,

When the shop balanced your Toyo tires on the TRD wheels, did they NOT use a Haweka Adapter on the balance machine?

There is a TSB from Toyota:

(SU002-96) Wheel Balance Adapter Kit

"9/2/1996 - All Toyota Models. To improve the accuracy of Dynamic Off–Car wheel balancing on all OEM Toyota five and six lug wheels, a precision wheel adapter kit must be used. For the greatest accuracy and repeatability, Toyota recommends using the Haweka adapter kit available through the Toyota Approved Dealer Equipment catalog. The kit consists of a precision ground centering cone for truck alloy wheels and a flange plate."

Some more info here too:
http://4runners.org/writeups/haweka/index.html

 

[hoser]

You're probably right. Just trying to suggest some possibilities.

 

[madizell]

I don't even use dynamic balance on truck and Jeep tires. Static balance has always been sufficient, and does not require weight on the outer rims where off road use just wipes them off anyway. Haven't had any issues in years.

 

[Redline]

A little off-topic but it does relate to tires/wheels...

Until recently I have been having all of my tires on my TRD wheels balanced using the static, single point method, placing tape weights in the groove on the road-side of the wheels where Toyota specifies. Weight can also be pounded on the inner rim, but I was not doing it that way for the longest time. (The TRD wheels don't have an outer lip on which to pound on wheel weight.) Using the single-point method saves the weight from being easily ripped-off as Madizell stated, and also uses less weight. One of my best balanced sets of tires are my Cooper STs (also the lightest) which are still balanced this way.

Still, adding weight to both the inside and outer side of the wheel should provide a better balanced tire/wheel assembly.

I don't even use dynamic balance on truck and Jeep tires. Static balance has always been sufficient, and does not require weight on the outer rims where off road use just wipes them off anyway. Haven't had any issues in years.

 

[ashooter]

I thought I'd chime in with all this talk about balancing...

I have a total of close to 700 highway miles and 200+/- off-pavement miles on my Toyo M/T's now using NO weights other than 8 oz. per tire of the "offroad" ceramic beads from Innovative Balancing (aka "dyna-beads"). I get no pulling, wobbling, or vibrations etc that cannot be directly attributed to rough or "wavy" pavement that is visible to the eye. At 75 mph when I see nice new smooth pavement, it feels like I'm riding on glass.

As long as I don't see any long-term problems pop up over the life of these tires, I'm pretty impressed with these dyna-beads.

 

[hoser]

I will also add my 35" Toyo MT's took less weight than my 33" BFG AT/KO's. A couple of the weights have fallen off since installation but still no noticeable vibration.

 

[Redline]

I have been repeatedly impressed by the low to moderate amount of weight needed to balance Toyo MT tires. The 285/75, 265/75 and now 255/85 all seem to have balanced well and ride true. The only exception to this was one of the four 255/85 that I originally purchased would not balance without excessive weight, and then would still ask for more weight. This tire was tossed and replaced with a new one when the 255s were mounted on my F350 recently.

I bet I have posted this elsewhere though I'm not sure, and since we are discussing Toyo MT balance, here is how much weight was needed to balance when the Toyo MT 255/85R16s were first mounted and balanced on my TRD wheels. We used the two-point method

Toyo MT LT255/85R16 Balancing

Right-Front 3.00-oz. inner 0.75 outer
Left-Front 1.00-oz. inner 1.75 outer
Left-Rear 3.75-oz. inner 1.50 outer
Right-Rear 1.50-oz. inner 3.50 outer (this last tire initially asked for 7-ounces! It was rotated 180-degrees on the wheel and balanced with only 5-ounces, but I think it was the tire that was later replaced with a new one.)

For comparison after mounting my Maxxis Bighorns on the same TRD wheels, also in LT255/85R16, using the single point tape-weight method.

Maxxis Bighorn MT LT255/85R16 Balancing

Right-Front 2.75-oz.
Left-Front 1.75-oz.
Left-Rear 5.00-oz.
Right-Rear 2.00-oz.

This is impressive for both of these tires. The Toyo MT in 255/85 is a 60-lb tire. The Bighorn in 255/85 is a 57-lb. tire, neither is a 'lightweight'. The BFG MT KM1 is much lighter at 51-lbs and so is the featherweight Cooper ST at 48.5-lbs (all in 255/85).

 

[Redline]

I would be surprised if your Toyos don't stay perfectly balanced forever with the 8-oz. of beads in each tire. I have yet to see a Toyo MT need that much weight and the dyna beads will likely work their magic easily.

I would like to try some of these balancing beads myself. Innovative Balancing's website suggests only 6-ounces for a 255/85, is there a reason you decided to use 8-ounces on your Toyos?

I thought I'd chime in with all this talk about balancing...

I have a total of close to 700 highway miles and 200+/- off-pavement miles on my Toyo M/T's now using NO weights other than 8 oz. per tire of the "offroad" ceramic beads from Innovative Balancing (aka "dyna-beads"). I get no pulling, wobbling, or vibrations etc that cannot be directly attributed to rough or "wavy" pavement that is visible to the eye. At 75 mph when I see nice new smooth pavement, it feels like I'm riding on glass.

As long as I don't see any long-term problems pop up over the life of these tires, I'm pretty impressed with these dyna-beads.

 

[ujoint]

I just got as set. I'll have them mounted next week. Can't wait to try them out and compare to my MTZ's. Slightly different size though....

 

[ashooter]

...I would like to try some of these balancing beads myself. Innovative Balancing's website suggests only 6-ounces for a 255/85, is there a reason you decided to use 8-ounces on your Toyos?

Mostly just because the "offroad" dyna-beads only came in 8 oz. or larger pkgs. I wanted to use the offroad beads because they're larger and don't require special valve cores or anything like that - just dump them in when mounting the tire. Plus, I kinda figured that since the Toyo M/T's are really heavy for a 255/85, a couple of "extra" ounces of beads might not be a bad idea.

 

[4hilux]

Interesting thread - I've had the same hassles sometimes, with Cooper STT's, but only when running them on IFS vehicles - soon as ya put them on, they pull 'left'. (We are RHD here....) Yet, when under a 'live / solid' front axle vehicle, they are fine. Solution for IFS is definitely in wheel alignment, with the negative being that once its set up for the 'muds', fitting anything less aggressive will make it pull the opposite way from original problem with 'muds'.

 

[Redline]

Very interesting about the IFS vs. Solid Axle with your Cooper STTs.

I was thinking it was "the vehicle" but not necessarily the IFS on the 4Runner that was causing the pulling, but the IFS (Alignment) surely could be what the problem was. A very interesting observation.

My pulling is/was with the IFS 4Runner but currently doesn’t exist with the solid axle Ford and Toyo MTs.

Interesting thread - I've had the same hassles sometimes, with Cooper STT's, but only when running them on IFS vehicles - soon as ya put them on, they pull 'left'. (We are RHD here....) Yet, when under a 'live / solid' front axle vehicle, they are fine. Solution for IFS is definitely in wheel alignment, with the negative being that once its set up for the 'muds', fitting anything less aggressive will make it pull the opposite way from original problem with 'muds'.

 

[spressomon]

I would be surprised if your Toyos don't stay perfectly balanced forever with the 8-oz. of beads in each tire. I have yet to see a Toyo MT need that much weight and the dyna beads will likely work their magic easily.

I would like to try some of these balancing beads myself. Innovative Balancing's website suggests only 6-ounces for a 255/85, is there a reason you decided to use 8-ounces on your Toyos?

James,

I tried the Dyna Beads on my 315R75 16 MT/R's. 8oz each per their recommendation. They worked OK but not perfect. You can feel them start working between 45 and 50mph. And generally worked fairly well although not perfectly at higher speeds. Maybe more beads were needed for these tires. But then I would think 35-50mph would be even worse for negative effect.

And for whatever reason they DID NOT work in the same tires when mounted on the trailer: Never did figure out why.

 

[Redline]

Interesting.

 

[njjeepthing]

I have a set of 4 285/75/16 Toyo's for sale if anyone on the East Coast is looking. $700 for a set of 4, with 300 miles on them.