Using Premium Gas
- Thread starter MOAK
- Start date
Where is "here" for you?
How much ethanol?
Even studies promoted by the most ardent proponents of sugar sourced ethanol recognize at least a 15-20% decrease in energy potential per gallon for 10% blends,with a decrease in mileage per gallon. Independent studies reports indicate more like 30-35% decrease in potential and 20-30% decrease in mileage with E85 and less with the 10% E90 blend.)
Consumer Reports test show a 27% decrease in mielage using E85 compared to gasoline, and a slight improvement in performance with the etanol. Link: http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/cars/new-cars/news/ethanol/test-results-e85-vs-gasoline/index.htm
Others: http://www.fuel-testers.com/2_mpg_e10_gas.html (citing more than the EPA loss for E10 - see below for the EPA report assuming a ~3% loss of efficiency and noting a 25-30% loss with E85)
Other studies show substantially lower loss of mileage. See here for example: epa.gov/oms/regs/fuels/ostp-3.pdf (Noting a ~3% drop in efficiency for E10 and a 25-20% drop in efficienct for E85 - which defies logic.)
Only the ethanol industry organization suggest that any ethanol blend may increase mileage, and that suggestion is made for use only in certain situations, and really undocumented: see here: www.eastcoastenergysolutions.com/.../...
So you WILL see a drop in mileage when using an etanol blend, the only question is how much drop. The lower the mileage your truck gets with pure gasoline, the greater the drop in mileage with ethanol. See here: http://www.fuel-testers.com/MPG_gas_efficiency_E10_ethanol.html
The reports and articles were found via google search, and represent a cross section of reports, and there are many reports and articles, with lots of contradiction - except that every one asserts a drop in mileage with the exception of one pretty well undocumented ethanol industry article.
JPK
How much ethanol?
Even studies promoted by the most ardent proponents of sugar sourced ethanol recognize at least a 15-20% decrease in energy potential per gallon for 10% blends,with a decrease in mileage per gallon. Independent studies reports indicate more like 30-35% decrease in potential and 20-30% decrease in mileage with E85 and less with the 10% E90 blend.)
Consumer Reports test show a 27% decrease in mielage using E85 compared to gasoline, and a slight improvement in performance with the etanol. Link: http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/cars/new-cars/news/ethanol/test-results-e85-vs-gasoline/index.htm
Others: http://www.fuel-testers.com/2_mpg_e10_gas.html (citing more than the EPA loss for E10 - see below for the EPA report assuming a ~3% loss of efficiency and noting a 25-30% loss with E85)
Other studies show substantially lower loss of mileage. See here for example: epa.gov/oms/regs/fuels/ostp-3.pdf (Noting a ~3% drop in efficiency for E10 and a 25-20% drop in efficienct for E85 - which defies logic.)
Only the ethanol industry organization suggest that any ethanol blend may increase mileage, and that suggestion is made for use only in certain situations, and really undocumented: see here: www.eastcoastenergysolutions.com/.../...
So you WILL see a drop in mileage when using an etanol blend, the only question is how much drop. The lower the mileage your truck gets with pure gasoline, the greater the drop in mileage with ethanol. See here: http://www.fuel-testers.com/MPG_gas_efficiency_E10_ethanol.html
The reports and articles were found via google search, and represent a cross section of reports, and there are many reports and articles, with lots of contradiction - except that every one asserts a drop in mileage with the exception of one pretty well undocumented ethanol industry article.
JPK
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That would explain the good ol' gasoline!
MoGas
Central Scrutinizer
You may not have been using Ethanol to begin with.
reece146
Automotive Artist
All 87 unleaded in this area seems to be ~10% ethanol. Mid grade is 5%.
Sunoco 94 (before being merged with PetroCanada) was something like 5-10% ethanol. I switched the track car to Shell 91 and noticed a difference compared to Sunoco 94. Not sure if it is available now - haven't used Sunoco since before the merger.
Sunoco 94 (before being merged with PetroCanada) was something like 5-10% ethanol. I switched the track car to Shell 91 and noticed a difference compared to Sunoco 94. Not sure if it is available now - haven't used Sunoco since before the merger.
Calin.Macrinici
Observer
What we need to do is get used to ethanol in fuel, there's really no way around it. You may get lower mileage but you don't really have a choice. From PetroCanada:
The Federal Government has regulated that motor gasoline sold in Canada after Sept. 1, 2010 must contain an annual pool average of 5% ethanol. Different provincial mandates also exist, some with higher ethanol pool requirements. Because of these mandates, most grades of Petro-Canada fuel may now contain up to 10% ethanol. This represents a change from the previous state, where premium fuel was ethanol-free at Petro-Canada. To find out if ethanol-blended gasoline is sold at a station look for the yellow labels in the pump area indicating that the fuel may contain a maximum of 10% ethanol.
Basically until that, only Ontario and Quebec had regulated content of ethanol in fuels (same 5% average). The general consensus seems to be 10% for the regular, 5% mid grade and 0% premium. I also keep hearing rumblings that Shell's V-Power is ethanol free (although a lot of the pumps don't say that anymore); I also heard that Canadian Tire premium doesn't have ethanol. I'm unsure about both though, everyone else -- Esso, PetroCanada (including Sunoco), etc. seem to have ethanol in all grades of fuel. This quote from Toronto Star in 2010 is actually a funny way of accepting this: Most gas has enough ethanol to act as gas-line antifreeze, so it's actually good for us in the winter at least 
About using premium (or their V-Power) gasoline in engines where regular is recommended by manufacturer, Shell says here "it's not only about the high octane", the "highest concentration" nitrogen enriched formula and the additives (detergents) benefit your engine regardless (pretty much by cleaning the "gunk"), so there you go.
One of the biggest hurdles faced with ethanol blends, especailly in earlier days when they were first appearing, is that ehtanol is hygrscopic, meaning it absorbs water from the atmosphere. The water may or may not blend in defferent situations. Lots of motion, like seen with a boat or off road vehicle, tends to make the water seperate. And then it can freeze in winter or evaporate in a hot compartment in the summer (leading to air lock.) The best prevention is always leaving your tank as full as possible so that room in the tank for moist air is limited and room on the tank walls for condensation is limited. Someone else mentioned that in an earlier post in this thread. Best to use "dry gas," which is largely ethanol, in a tank you've been running pure gasoline in only when you are going to run through the remainder of the tank and fill up the same day or shortly thereafter. Best not to add it to an ethanol blend at all.
I'm thinking a good reason to run a marine fuel filter/water seperator in an overland vehicle.
JPK
I'm thinking a good reason to run a marine fuel filter/water seperator in an overland vehicle.
JPK
jeep-N-montero
Expedition Leader
Last summer I had an interesting conversation with the manager of a local small engine dealer(lawnmowers, chainsaws, etc) about the quality of gas that should go into them and expected shelf life of stored gasoline. He said that the average life of a given octane rating when mixed with ethanol for a gallon of gas is 2-3 weeks before needing an additive. After that my neighbor and I talked it over and we shared a 2 gallon container to keep it rotated often over the summer.
When I talked to Husky, Esso & Shell, they all told me in writing that their Premium didn't contain any ethanol (as of last summer). The 87 had 10%, while 89 could have up to 10%.
jeep-N-montero
Expedition Leader
Good read, especially about the newer cars.
bob91yj
Resident **************
Just to add another twist, in most area's the "mid grade" fuel is achieved by a mixing valve in the pump that delivers 50% low octane:50% high octane. There is no separate tank for mid grade fuel.
Other than the early XJ's with the Renix management system, the 4.0L does not have a knock sensor...the engine management system in the "High Output/Mopar 4.0L" has no way to determine/adjust for fuel quality.
Other than the early XJ's with the Renix management system, the 4.0L does not have a knock sensor...the engine management system in the "High Output/Mopar 4.0L" has no way to determine/adjust for fuel quality.
jeep-N-montero
Expedition Leader
As stated in the linked article above.