Which axle upgrade route to take

[Alaska Mike]

Let's be honest- anything you do at this point short of stock replacement is going to detract from the "purity" of the vehicle. Even a Salisbury isn't "correct".

Sounds like disc brakes are your wife's #1 priority. I'm willing to bet reliability is yours. How about fixing the front axle, installing a disc brake kit like TeriAnn's, and then going 24 spline in the rear? The ARB ring is pretty cheap, Disco 24 spline housings aren't bad, and GBR (or whatever) R&Ps would be stronger than stock if you decided to replace the existing R&P. That would give you a complete 3rd member to swap in if your front one ever failed. Helps if you can set up gears or are buddies with someone who works for beer.

I'd still consider a truck transmission a future modification worth doing.

 

[Mercedesrover]

Sounds like disc brakes are your wife's #1 priority. I'm willing to bet reliability is yours. How about fixing the front axle, installing a disc brake kit like TeriAnn's, and then going 24 spline in the rear? The ARB ring is pretty cheap, Disco 24 spline housings aren't bad, and GBR (or whatever) R&Ps would be stronger than stock if you decided to replace the existing R&P. That would give you a complete 3rd member to swap in if your front one ever failed. Helps if you can set up gears or are buddies with someone who works for beer.

Ya know, if you really want discs, want to increase the rear a bit (but don't really need anything as strong as a Toyota swap) and are on a bit of a budget, this probably makes good sense. I wouldn't even bother with a new R&P...Just put your gears in the newer housing with the spacer and an ARB locker. A rock-crawler this doesn't make, but for as hard as you want to push a Dormie, this would probably work for you.

I'm probably going to put a set of 24-spline rear shafts on Ebay for the hell of it next week. Keep an eye out.

 

[Alaska Mike]

Matching patterns on a well broken-in set of gears is kinda tricky (especially when changing carriers), but it can be done if your gear tech knows what they are doing. It's not a question of setting it up within specs, but matching what the last tech did so you don't have excess noise/wear. Less of an issue on a front application. If R&P strength is a concern for you, the 4.75 gears provide an increase in durability. However, as Mercedesrover says, it is not required. Talk to the guy who would be doing your gears and see what they say.

As for the 24 spline axle shafts, I can honestly say that the Seriestrek shafts are every bit as good as other products I've used from Warn, Moser, or any of the other big axle building companies. Clean machining and well-designed. That's one part I don't have to worry about on my Rover.

 

[TeriAnn]

The idea of the Toyota drivetrain is nice, but at some point you have to just say, get a Toyota.

That's what I keep thinking.

Your 2.6 really doesn't need Toy axles, but a Dormie is too heavy for 10 spline Rover axles in the rear. A stock Salisbury is way strong for your engine and maintains the Land Rover Dormobile "look".

The 24 spline RR axle would likely work with a brake proportioning valve to turn the rear disc braking down to a little less than the front but the rear wheels would be sticking out farther than the front.

I think your easiest upgrade that maintains the stock Dormobile look is a Salisbury rear or stuffing 24 spline axles into your Rover rear assembly.

Also, there are more modifications I am willing to make to a standard 109, but this is an original Dormobile. There were fewer of those made than the "Special Editions" of a lot of modern cars.

The "standard" guesstimate that gets thrown out is about 500 Land Rover Dormobiles built between 1958 and 1974 ... World wide. Of those some have been wrecked (like the one my Dormobile kit was salvaged from), some are settling into the earth from not having moved in decades, many have been disassembled and sit as stalled restoration projects & some have been restored & don't get used because the owner doesn't want them worn or scratched. There are not a whole lot out there who are actually being used as intended. James has one of those few and as such is extra precious.

TeriAnn, what master cylinder do you have? John upgraded to a SIII dual circuit MC along the way.

Stock Series III 109 master cylinder. Works fine with both drums & front discs.

 

[TeriAnn]

Let's be honest- anything you do at this point short of stock replacement is going to detract from the "purity" of the vehicle. Even a Salisbury isn't "correct".

It is correct for Land Rover Dormobiles that are about 4 years newer than Jame's Dormobile (Salisbury is standard fitment for Series III 109's) It is a bolt on upgrade that requires no modifications (Does require a Series III six cyl rear propshaft or a slight shortening of the one he has).

A Series III 109 Salisbury upgrade to a pre Series III 109 is a universally accepted upgrade for anything short of concourse.

 

[Antichrist]

Personally, if it were mine, I'd leave it as close to original as possible. They are rare in original/near original condition. Given how few they are, it would be worse, IMO, than finding a nice original Model A and hotroding it.

The SIIa gearbox is stronger than the SIII. It just takes practice. I'd suggest that your wife get comfortable driving it, shifting, etc, in a parking lot before trying off-road. When there are new things to deal with, it's a lot easier to learn when there are fewer things to worry about. A flat empty parking lot is about as simple as you can get.

A SIII Salisbury would be a good upgrade for the rear. If you ever decide to sell it, it wouldn't detract from the vehicle.

As for brakes, for the most part that's just a matter of learning to drive it like it was made in '68. I spent a lot of years driving my 109's around the mtns in Vermont, many times fully loaded with wood. I just always kept in mind they weren't disc brakes and drove accordingly.

 

[ntsqd]

While I've no problem with, and highly second the recommendations that it be driven as is proper for a vehicle with drum brakes, my concern is the idiot who thinks everything stops like his Honda CRX. Defensive driving can only go so far and do so much. Perhaps I am blinded by my daily Lower Left Coast commute drive, but I have to believe that we haven't succeeded in gathering all of those idiots into this state.

 

[DaveInDenver]

The idea of the Toyota drivetrain is nice, but at some point you have to just say, get a Toyota.

That's what goes through my mind when I read about Rovers and Jeeps getting Toyota this or that. Once you've riped out the drivetrain, the sheet metal wrapping is sorta a farce. Rovers are cool because of the way they look, but more so to me for their idiosyncrasies, like the oil leaks or whatever. They sure aren't generic cars, they stand out.

Although their frames look awful wimpy.

Now that is one thing that I've never heard (other than the 1995-2000 Tacoma frame rot). The guy at the shop where my buddy had his frame worked on sure wasn't happy when his jig rigging broke trying to straighten it. If there's one thing the world Toyotas (Cruisers, Hilux, etc.) are not, it's whimpy for their rated sizes. A lot of people use that GVWR on the door sill as a very rough guideline. I've been about 750 lbs (which is about 15%) over mine fully loaded for about 9 years, but who's counting? And the guy I bought it from was a boat builder, he flogged it (and cared for it appropriately) from day one. Nary a cm of misalignment in the suspension to this day, 17" on the nose across the lower control arms.

 

[James86004]

I would have had a Salisbury a long time ago if I could actually find one. Great Basin Rovers has them, but he wants to go through them and rebuild the whole thing, which means it ends up costing as much as Jim's Toyota conversion. The advantages of the Toyota conversion are lockers are a lot cheaper, and there are a lot more diff ratios to choose from.

 

[James86004]

Now that is one thing that I've never heard (other than the 1995-2000 Tacoma frame rot). The guy at the shop where my buddy had his frame worked on sure wasn't happy when his jig rigging broke trying to straighten it. If there's one thing the world Toyotas (Cruisers, Hilux, etc.) are not, it's whimpy for their rated sizes.

Just a comment on the visual of the frame when I have crawled under it. The cross-section of the Toyota frame rails look really small compared to the Rover.

 

[DaveInDenver]

Just a comment on the visual of the frame when I have crawled under it. The cross-section of the Toyota frame rails look really small compared to the Rover.

Nah, just saying is all. ;-)

Difference in design philosophies I suspect. Japan has always been limited in resources and so they have to design things with inherent strength by design rather than brute force size. They've lost their way a little lately, less boxing of frame and stuff, but the traditional models used in overlanding are generally considered fairly stout. But just from personal experience, the little 1/2 ton rated Toyota Pickup (i.e. Hilux in other markets) has no problem stopping with or hauling 2,000 lbs of landscaping in the bed. Part of that is probably the 22R-E won't achieve any land speed records hauling ~7,000 lbs of truck and payload... But we did our whole yard at the old house with me hauling dirt, sand, pavers, all of that with my truck. Turns out a few years later my springs probably expended decades of their life doing it, but other than being really slow, no other issues.

 

[greenmeanie]

You might try contacting this person. He's in Tucson and has one as part of this parts collection. He's already dropped the price and that sals is an extra judgingby the number of other tubes he shows. You might find he's willing to part with it alone.

Edit/ OK it seems that ebay links get censored. Go to ebay and there is a guy in Tucson selling a big pile of parts that are enough to supposedly build two trucks. There is a sals in that pile of parts.

 

[Alaska Mike]

It is correct for Land Rover Dormobiles that are about 4 years newer than Jame's Dormobile (Salisbury is standard fitment for Series III 109's) It is a bolt on upgrade that requires no modifications (Does require a Series III six cyl rear propshaft or a slight shortening of the one he has).

A Series III 109 Salisbury upgrade to a pre Series III 109 is a universally accepted upgrade for anything short of concourse.

I agree that it is a good modification in terms of strength and the fact that it is bolt-on. If you can find one for a decent price, that would be the direction I would take. If not, the Seriestrek 24 spline axles are also bolt-on and can be removed if an original vehicle is required. Likewise, a disc conversion such as yours is a bolt-on proposition, that can be returned to stock with simple hand tools- not that I would understand the logic behind removing one.

However, I do question the whole "original" thing, since isn't a Dormobile a significant modification in itself, with countless options and variations?

 

[Antichrist]

While I've no problem with, and highly second the recommendations that it be driven as is proper for a vehicle with drum brakes, my concern is the idiot who thinks everything stops like his Honda CRX.

My solution to that is to not let idiots drive it.

However, I do question the whole "original" thing, since isn't a Dormobile a significant modification in itself, with countless options and variations?

If I recall correctly they Series Dormoblies came from 2 mfg (may have only been one and I'm thinking of the Carawagon) and each had a limited variation setup.

Here's a good link for those interested.
http://www.lrfaq.org/Series/Dormobile/FAQ.Dormobile.html

 

[TeriAnn]

My solution to that is to not let idiots drive it.


If I recall correctly they Series Dormoblies came from 2 mfg (may have only been one and I'm thinking of the Carawagon) and each had a limited variation setup.

Here's a good link for those interested.
http://www.lrfaq.org/Series/Dormobile/FAQ.Dormobile.html

Dormobiles were manufactured by Martian Walter, Ltd in England They were available from both directly from Martian Walter AND from Land Rover dealers. The Dormobles purchased from Land Rover dealers had a standard configuration and a standard set of options. If purchased directly from Martian Walter you could order from the standard options or have the interior custom built. I believe all the 2 door Land Rover Dormobiles came from Martian Walter directly.

The site you linked to was one I built for John Hess some years back. With his permission I kept a copy and have developed it farther.

Land Rover Dormobile web site

Carawagons were built by R.J. Searle Ltd.

Carawagon web page

A little over a decade ago a UK company called Dormobile Ltd was formed to provide replacement parts for Land Rover Dormobiles. It soon found itself very busy making Dormobile conversions on D110's.