Who wants CTIS?

[Redline]

I agree. I like to air down and don't mind airing up. But as important as air pressure is to traction and control, changing it on the fly as conditions change would be very nice.

I tend to air down and stay at a certain pressure, but the fact is that adjusting PSI as needed makes lots of sense. If I had that capability I know I would use it. However, I don't want an expensive, troublesome system that works in theory but is unreliable over the years.

For me, when I am in a 'hardcore' expedition/exploration/4wheeling setting I have had times that I generally have to air up and down a few times a day. Once is fine, but when you cover a lot of hard technical ground, I find that I have to go from highway pressure, to trail pressure, to snow pressure, than back to trail pressure, than back to snow pressure, etc.

 

[lowenbrau]

Could you please fill out this simple survey. I would like to forward this to a foreign company that may be able to produce a kit, or maybe someone will see this information and recognize the market.

Who wants a Central Tire Inflation System?

What would you pay?

What kind of vehicle do you have?

Do you already have an on board air system?

What air pressure range would you want at the tire?

What resolution would you want on the air pressure readings?

Any other thoughts and comments are welcome....

Thanks for your time.

I want it.
I'd pay $500
I drive Land Cruisers
I have OBA
I'd want a 5-50PSI range
I'd want to be able to adjust in .5 PSI increments


I'd happily do significant mods to the vehicle but there'd have to be limited, heavily armored exposed parts and the system would have to be able to be disconnected from any tire/wheel with simple tools in less than a minute.

I'd have to see the product tested w/o failure in very harsh conditions before I'd drop dollar one.

It would be luxurious to be able to control air pressure on the fly. I change pressure often if the road conditions change from dry to wet to snow to ice. I often air down for gravel travel. If I could, I can imagine adjusting pressure many times a day just on HWY940 in Alberta. This technology should be embraced by the Expo community over all others since we travel at speed over terrains suitable for varied pressures.

All that being said, I'm highly skeptical that a robust system is available that will not be torn off, or leak and pressurize my diffs, or cause one tire leak to deflate all four.

 

[Metcalf]

Some more thoughts and ideas....

-What if the system came as part of an upgraded axle package? Generally, no matter what kind of system was designed. The air is going to have to pass through some kinda of passage in the axle shaft.

-I think having simple and replaceable air transfer tubes from the center line of the axle/hub to the wheel would be important. Most wheels tend to have a fairly bad stem position. Perhaps the wheels could be drilled for a 2nd valve stem position that was more inboard and protected? I agree that whatever is used that it be quickly replaceable, also be able to be bypassed, and not effect the other tires.

-From what I have seen a 1-psi is easily attainable for control in an off the shelf system that could corner isolate, corner correct, give alarms for low pressure, and be adjustable for sensitivity of correction. Sadly however, this off the shelf stuff is more than $500 just by itself ( controller, display, and pressure sensors ). Maybe having a simple manual control and gauge package would be the way to go for a more affordable kit?

 

[Redline]

I like your specifications. Though I don't think $500.00 wild get us there.

I want it.
I'd pay $500
I drive Land Cruisers
I have OBA
I'd want a 5-50PSI range
I'd want to be able to adjust in .5 PSI increments


I'd happily do significant mods to the vehicle but there'd have to be limited, heavily armored exposed parts and the system would have to be able to be disconnected from any tire/wheel with simple tools in less than a minute.

I'd have to see the product tested w/o failure in very harsh conditions before I'd drop dollar one.

It would be luxurious to be able to control air pressure on the fly. I change pressure often if the road conditions change from dry to wet to snow to ice. I often air down for gravel travel. If I could, I can imagine adjusting pressure many times a day just on HWY940 in Alberta. This technology should be embraced by the Expo community over all others since we travel at speed over terrains suitable for varied pressures.

All that being said, I'm highly skeptical that a robust system is available that will not be torn off, or leak and pressurize my diffs, or cause one tire leak to deflate all four.

 

[Street Wolf]

I want it, I'll buy it. 00' Land Rover Disco.

 

[lowenbrau]

I like your specifications. Though I don't think $500.00 wild get us there.

I'm sure it wouldn't. The price is the one spec I'd move on.

 

[1leglance]

A quality on board air setup like Extreme Outback is worth $500...so I would figure I want the best on a CTIS.
That means a total package price more along the lines of $750-$1000.
However it would be great to have the option of buying it without compressor/tank if I already have that and what I have meets the min req of the CTIS setup.

 

[PhulesAU]

Sorry, but to me it has "Murphy's Law" written all over it.

something else to break at the worst possible time.

 

[charlieaarons]

It was >$4000 option for Unimog. That was for a vehicle already with an air system.
Check out the Eaton/Roadranger Tire Management products:
http://www.roadranger.com/Roadranger/productssolutions/tiremanagement/index.htm
I haven't had any problems at all with my system except for a 2%/day leak in the front axle. That means it takes 5wks to lose 50% of the pressure. Ever since new, no change in >3 yrs.
It has a discrimination of 1-2 psi adjustment scale (0.1 bar).

Charlie

 

[GeoTracker90]

AIM has a bolt on portal hub for axles that is CTIS capable. Take a look at the link below.

Bolt On Portal Hubs

Mike

 

[corax]

how about something like what Robby Gordon used on his H3 in the '07 Dakar? IIRC, since he ran 2wd he could use a remote inflation device. It consisted of some kind out outrigger to route air to the tires (eliminating axle variation / fitment issues) and looks like it would retro fit easily. Most likely would only work for the rear / non-steering wheels and it would be a vulnerable point in close quarters, obviously not for full time use

read the 3rd paragraph

Does anyone know more about this system?

 

[corax]

you can just see the air hose at the 10 o'clock position on the rear tire

 

[Metcalf]

With all the other modifications in the aftermarket CTIS wouldn't be any more liable than all the other modifications....lift kits, wheels, etc.

The system on the race hummer came from Syegon if I remember right. They are one of the companies that has all this technology sitting on the shelf if there was a market in the USA that could be demonstrated. They have internal and external systems. I have a marketing video by them somewhere.

I think the hardest part would be finding a market base that would support the product. Jeep is the biggest market by far, but I doubt that most jeep people would want CTIS. I don't know how well the expedition market carries over to the jeep segment? There would not be one kit kit that could carry over to different models especially if you wanted a hidden internal system that was well protected.

The other option for an external kit would be to use hose that was strong, durable, and cheap. The nylon air brake lines on semi-trucks would be a great option along with push-lock air fittings.

 

[Redline]

Good points gentlemen.

-Liability

-Market

-Cost/Complication & Failure

All points argue against something like this being made available. Above I said I would like it at $500.00, I may still like it at $1,000-1,500.00, but would it really be worth it? Maybe not for occasional/recreational use. Maybe so for a dedicated overland vehicle that sees a high percentage of off-highway miles.

 

[charlieaarons]

Are you guys aware of the integration involved with CTIS???

It is not just the air system! There are electronic links between the CTIS and the transmission & motor ECU's, so that the speed is limited by locking out the higher gears so that "bone-heads" don't drive at highway speeds with under inflated tires.

There was a "famous" unimog crash a few years ago where the driver/owner overrode or ignored (I'm not sure exactly) the CTIS and augured. I think it cost Freightliner a few ducats. Charlie probably knows more of the details.

My guess is that companies like Eaton wouldn't touch the recreational market with a 10ft pole. It also seems (don't know 100%) that the military truck junkyards refuse to sell any CTIS stuff because of liability.

A guy had his U500 at or above rear GAWR. He drove fast = 70mph on tires at 30-40% of street pressure. The inevitable happened. The load was a folded up crane so the CG was high and the truck rolled over at least on its' side.
When I got my U500 in 05 it had the system set up so if you exceeded recommended speeds for lower pressures it would automatically inflate the tires. Later, to their credit, MB installed an override switch as a recall; I don't know how it got by the lawyers. It allows me to have "only" 85psi (or much less if was stupid) in my rears when empty of water and low on fuel; at full GAWR it wants at least 95.
Any integrated CTIS system in this era in this country would have to be as Joaquin describes. The wiring diagram for my CTIS system isn't simple and neither is the pneumatic diagram.
Axletech, in their add-on portal boxes says they can be ordered "ready for CTIS". They clearly want the buyer to install whatever system the buyer sees fit, I think they have no intention of supplying the systems.
I did have a fantasy idea, though. All the new cars have tire pressure monitoring systems. At some point in the distant future, might all vehicles have a version of CTIS designed to keep pressures high for safety and fuel economy?
Something to make cars even more expensive.

Charlie