XJ Unibody - strong enough to "camperize"

[Backwoods Rambler]

I think you will still be stuck with a "live around" vehicle .....a trailer would be a better setup.....

I agree

Even assuming you don't remove the entire roof, but only cut out a hatch leaving a perimeter of original metal, what is left won't resist twisting. You need diagonal counter-strength that the roof panel provides. Naturally, with a pop-up roof, you can't criss-cross the area with tubes, so all of the resistance to twisting is going to have to be in the perimeter to which the pop-up is mounted.

Well said, and I agree. But, what about a small interior cage (perhaps even tied to stiffened fram rails)? I would think that even just a 1" -to- 1.25" dia. tube cage surrounding the cargo area along with reinforcing the roof (as I linked to in the first response) would suffice in the "Hatch" cutout scenario.

Like you said, it's a lot of engineering, but if it's what you've got to work with, sometimes you should just make it work. That's where some of the most unique rigs come from. However, it can also be where some of the worst rigs come from; just depends on the fabricator.....

 

[jh504]

Probably it is I who didn't understand the modification intended, but it would not alter my response so much as that I would say a roof top modification is more likely to be successful than a more radical bit of surgery. Still, the roof is a stressed component of the uni-body, much more so than a body on frame as shown in the link photos (not the thumbnails just above).

It is not the sub-frame rails that need modification to overcome the problem of cutting out the roof panel. What needs resisting is torsional stress, and nearly all the torsional stiffness of the uni-body is in the body itself, with the roof panel being a good part of that overall unit. The roof panel is not flat, it is molded, and that bent configuration adds substantial strength to the unit. Even assuming you don't remove the entire roof, but only cut out a hatch leaving a perimeter of original metal, what is left won't resist twisting. You need diagonal counter-strength that the roof panel provides. Naturally, with a pop-up roof, you can't criss-cross the area with tubes, so all of the resistance to twisting is going to have to be in the perimeter to which the pop-up is mounted. I would think that some sort of endo-skeleton would be required to replace the roof panel and to keep the mounting surface from flexing. Surely, a fiberglass pop-up won't like being twisted, and I would not expect the topper, even in the locked down position, to add much to the strength of the vehicle. The vehicle itself has to be strong enough to resist twisting so that the pop-up takes no significant strain.

Perhaps with enough engineering it can be done. it would be an interesting but likely an expensive project to try. I think the Cherokee is a poor candidate. Better off to sell it and buy a vehicle that could take the modification, like an older Trooper.

I dont see how bracing the rails lengthwise and adding crossmembers would not solve the problem. If done correctly it is the same as a vehicle with a frame.

Clynn85 check out this link, there is some good information here.
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=168280

 

[toledotimber]

Adding more crossmembers from rail to rail does more good than along each rail. Also, the doors obviously do aid in body stiffness; the windows, however, do nothing in that regard. They are "floating" in the weatherseals--I know because I asked a Jeep engineer before I removed all of my rear windows.

 

[Backwoods Rambler]

Good link jh504

 

[2drx4]

Madizell, have you ever pulled the roof skin on an XJ?

 

[L8 APEKS]

Even if you figure out a way to cross-brace the body, there's simply no room. An XJ is a compact car with 4WD. Adding an oven, or a sink, or a fridge? HAHA...I can't even find a place to mount my CB radio. I had to buy one that had all of the controls in the mic body, just so I had room to put it somewhere.

Trailer. Srsly. XJ is just WAY too small for this kind of thing.

 

[jh504]

Madizell, have you ever pulled the roof skin on an XJ?

I am interested in this question as well.

 

[4Rescue]

As to the original question.... No.

Cheers

Dave

 

[toledotimber]

If by "roof skin" you mean the headliner, I've been running without one for almost a year now. In fact, most interior bits have been removed--no carpet, all factory drain plugs removed, almost all interior plastic is gone, and so on. I can get pics of the roof if you need/want.

 

[jh504]

As to the original question.... No.

Cheers

Dave

I wouldnt listen to anything this one says about a unibody, he is blinded by his hatred of them.

j/k 4rescue, we have had similar discussions before.

 

[CLynn85]

Glad to see this has spawned some good discussion.

Where do I start....

The pictures posted, is that just a conversion-van like roof to raise the height of the xj roof? that's just sketchy....

It wouldn't by any means be a complete live-in vehicle, as there's no room for sitting, and no room for a head, two necessary items for a live-in IMO.

No no no, not a drop in, like one of those saab abominations someone posted a while back.

Basically, the interior would be gutted, from the front seats back, and a flat floor built. Think Earthroamer XV-JP, but with a forward tilting top rather than the crazy-awesome rear opening top.

The roof portion that will be removed will be an area approximately the width of the roof rack, from the front seats back to a bit in front of the hatch.



The Cons of doing it on the XJ are numerous, so I thought I'd throw out some pros to keep things going.

1) SUV markets are tanked and a 100k mile cherokee is for all practical purposes worthless, $2-3000 range for a nice one. Selling something these days isn't easy, I have a really nice 2007 Focus I've been trying to unload for less than KBB and approximately half it's new value, and even still won't sell.

2) For us a trailer is not an option. We experimented with a popup camper for this year's cross country trip and as a result urban areas are a NIGHTMARE. Chicago was a total waste as we spent an hour finding somewhere to park, called the city's travel bureau which gave us directions to an rv lot on the edge of the city for $40, with no public transit in sight. From now on I will not travel the USA on a point to point trip with a trailer, it just doesn't work unless you're staying in a single area for a period of time long enough to drop the trailer and come back.

3) The Jeep's essentially free, I know the 4.0 pretty well, and the damn things are bombproof with parts available anywhere in the US.


Some ER interior pics:

 

[N8URE2]

http://www.ursaminorvehicles.com/camper.htm
something like this might be an option. in the Element there is no cutting to the roof, you access the roof top bed through the rear sunroof.
I would think that you could get by with cutting a sunroof sized hole in the XJ and add some extra bracing and be no worse off than stock.

another thing that comes to mind is try looking at how Jeep pulls off the big sliding rag top in the Liberty?
http://www.autoblog.com/photos/2008-jeep-liberty/377054/

I think your original intent was to also gain head room in the vehicle for cooking etc which the Ecamper option doesn't really solve.

AEV has done some chopping on XJs too, there may be something to be learned from their experiences.
http://www.aev-conversions.com/vehicles/show_africana.php

I've often seen 2dr XJs and thought it be cool to graft a the smallest 4wheelcamper on one much like a smaller version of the Blazer Chalet or some of the Scouts on here. IMO I think you'd basically have to reinforce basically EVERYTHING and would likely still twist and crumble like mad, but....

Now all this being said I have NO experience cutting, installing, or using any of these products. Just an overactive imagination and lots of dreams.

 

[2drx4]

If by "roof skin" you mean the headliner, I've been running without one for almost a year now. In fact, most interior bits have been removed--no carpet, all factory drain plugs removed, almost all interior plastic is gone, and so on. I can get pics of the roof if you need/want.

No. The actual peice of 24~ guage sheet that is the roof skin. I don't think he has.

Having cut up XJs in ways they were not ment to be cut up, I appreciate how they're built... But I think people really try to over-complicate things.

 

[jh504]

Glad to see this has spawned some good discussion.

Where do I start....

The pictures posted, is that just a conversion-van like roof to raise the height of the xj roof? that's just sketchy....

It wouldn't by any means be a complete live-in vehicle, as there's no room for sitting, and no room for a head, two necessary items for a live-in IMO.

No no no, not a drop in, like one of those saab abominations someone posted a while back.

Basically, the interior would be gutted, from the front seats back, and a flat floor built. Think Earthroamer XV-JP, but with a forward tilting top rather than the crazy-awesome rear opening top.

The roof portion that will be removed will be an area approximately the width of the roof rack, from the front seats back to a bit in front of the hatch.



The Cons of doing it on the XJ are numerous, so I thought I'd throw out some pros to keep things going.

1) SUV markets are tanked and a 100k mile cherokee is for all practical purposes worthless, $2-3000 range for a nice one. Selling something these days isn't easy, I have a really nice 2007 Focus I've been trying to unload for less than KBB and approximately half it's new value, and even still won't sell.

2) For us a trailer is not an option. We experimented with a popup camper for this year's cross country trip and as a result urban areas are a NIGHTMARE. Chicago was a total waste as we spent an hour finding somewhere to park, called the city's travel bureau which gave us directions to an rv lot on the edge of the city for $40, with no public transit in sight. From now on I will not travel the USA on a point to point trip with a trailer, it just doesn't work unless you're staying in a single area for a period of time long enough to drop the trailer and come back.

3) The Jeep's essentially free, I know the 4.0 pretty well, and the damn things are bombproof with parts available anywhere in the US.


[/IMG]

It is doable if you have the fabrication skills (or have a buddy who does) to get it done. On an XJ it will take a little more planning than on something like say, a 4runner, because of the unibody. If you want to do this and have the required essentials to do it, then I say go for it, it definitely can be done. I have a fab buddy who says "if a man built it then a man can fix it". I would caution someone from taking on a project like this if you do not have someone working on it with sufficient offroad fab skills though.

 

[4Rescue]

I wouldnt listen to anything this one says about a unibody, he is blinded by his hatred of them.

j/k 4rescue, we have had similar discussions before.

AHAHAHA, yeah no worries mate, different opinions drive the world eh.

The wierd thing about XJ's is that some (like me) find that they fall apart and don't last long. and others putter down the road for hundreds of thousands of miles with little to no issues. Maybe it's inconsistancy of production that kills Jeeps???

Cheers

Dave