Expedition vehicle transmissions: Auto or manual?

[Martinjmpr]

I greatly prefer manuals to automatics. My 07 4runner is only the 3rd AT equipped vehicle I've ever owned.

Biggest gripe with autos is the way they suck power from the engine. Having had the same 3.4 in a MT equipped Tacoma (04) and an AT equipped 4runner (99) the difference was dramatic. The drop in MPG is also noticeable.

Having said all that, I have to grudgingly admit that autos are getting better and are becoming the default transmission in a lot of vehicles. I actually like the 5 speed auto in my 07 4runner, though in some respects I shift it like a manual.

Interesting to me how many people say the auto is better for city driving - my DD is a manual and I like it that way (simpler, more fun.) Of course, my daily commute is mostly urban freeway or low-traffic streets, not a bumper-to-bumper grind. I suppose if I had that kind of drive I might prefer an auto for my DD.

Sad to see that the ability to drive an auto is becoming a lost skill. IMO everybody who drives should be required to learn how to drive a stick shift.

Here's a funny thing: In 2009, I sold my stick-equipped 04 Tacoma and got an Auto-equipped 99 4runner. Part of my rationale was that my wife, to my knowledge, had not owned a car with a MT since the early 80's and I thought that if we were in the back country and I got hurt, she needed to be able to drive out. So I got the 4runner with the slushbox and hated it.

Then in 2012, following ankle surgery in 2010, my wife reluctantly sold her motorcycle because she just couldn't ride it any more, her ankle just hurt too much.

And what did she get to replace it? A 1995 Jeep Wrangler (YJ.) With a 5 speed manual transmission. I ended up driving it home but that afternoon, Liz got into it and after grinding the gears a couple of times, she remembered how to shift and by the end of the day it was like she'd been doing it all her life (IMO driving a manual is like riding a bicycle - once you learn, you will remember even if you go for years without doing it.)

So, after all is said and done, the guy who hates automatics (me) has one for his off-road rig, and the woman who never liked manuals (my wife) has a MT-equipped vehicle for her off-road rig.

 

[Clutch]

Yep, I remember people saying that but what your friend isn't telling you is it was also an excuse for not being able to afford a car with an automatic transmission.

LOL, yeah you have to watch out for those English guys!


Sad thing is it is really an option anymore here in the States...however, was reading an article that there is becoming a demand again. I'll have to try
and find that article.

We have one vehicle with an auto in our fleet, and I rarely drive it, because I hate driving automatics. However, I do think it is a good idea to have at least one auto in the fleet in case of bodily injury.

 

[Dan Grec]

My English friend (or would it be "bloke"? ) says where he is from the only people who use autos are the elderly and handicapped. Wonder what that says about most of the the American populous.

That's the attitude in Australia too.

That being said, we rarely "rock-crawl" or drive 4x4 for sport, but mostly use them to get somewhere (on likely horrible roads).

My old man is 60 and the last car he bought was an auto (his first after ~20 cars).
When I questioned him on it, he said "Meh. I'm getting old."

-Dan

 

[getlost4x4]

auto. keep it maintained and it'll last as long as a manual.

 

[thedjjack]

Keep your junk maintained and none of the "weaknesses" are really a point to worry about provided the hardware is good for the intended purpose.

not exactly true.. auto dumps fluid or punch a whole in the pan and you have a problem...I have seen fully serviced auto blow a input seal...and good luck getting a 6 speed automatic fixed out of NA... I keep a 4 or 5 speed manual that any one can fix...

 

[chilliwak]

I agree with the statment that lots of guys here have made about a manual having better contact to the road. Obviously the manual is the transmission of choice for steep descents and push starting. But i wil admit with the modifications I have done with old school Chevys I would hate to make a clutch linkage work with huge body lift. Also, an auto trany with a good shift kit and lots of extra cooling is a close second in drivability to a manual trans. Personally, for the time being a am sticking with a modified auto trans... Cheers, Chilli..

 

[reece146]

not exactly true.. auto dumps fluid or punch a whole in the pan and you have a problem...I have seen fully serviced auto blow a input seal...and good luck getting a 6 speed automatic fixed out of NA... I keep a 4 or 5 speed manual that any one can fix...

Yes, anything can happen. Meteor could crash through the hood of my Jeep and destroy engine. Stupid inline six engines are to be avoided I guess.

 

[4x4junkie]

Another manual vote here. It's simpler and easier to maintain, fewer parts, and with proper maintenance and not abusing it, should last almost indefinitely excluding the synchros (which appears to be a fairly simple and not too expensive rebuild).

With deep enough gearing a manual can be every bit as good as an auto even in technical slow-speed crawling work (I have a 6.15:1 dual transfer case setup in my rig giving me a 117:1 total reduction at the wheels).
Point the vehicle at whatever it is you wish to climb, and just let the engine idle along. Need to stop for a moment? Step on the brake and clutch at the same time. Need to move forward the tiniest amount like another inch? Let the clutch out just enough to overcome your holding of the brake (no rolling backward at all). All this can take place without your having to touch the throttle at all.

I do see an auto being better suited for mud and maybe sand (you don't lose your momentum while it shifts) and of course being stuck in miserable city stop-&-go traffic. Mud isn't my thing though (and I usually try to avoid rush hour as much as possible) so this isn't as much of a concern for me.

 

[matt s]

Have and like both. That said I'm keeping the auto in my blazer. I just prefer it offroad. Driving down the road ill take a manual. It's just more fun.

Why does everyone seem to think you can't downshift an auto or use it for controlled descents? That lever has other positions than D.

 

[matt s]

As far as durability I really think its case by case. Seems I hear a lot of complaints about clutches going out, throw out bearings failing, flywheels warping, linkages failing, mc/slave cyls leaking failing etc. it just doesn't seem as fool proof as most say. Not that autos don't have issues and when they do its a complete replacement but just doesn't seem as frequent to me. Some autos suck, some manual boxes suck, still think its case by case.

.

This has been my experience. I'm at the point where it'd rather drop a new auto in every 5 years than do any of the above repairs every year or two.

As to my auto love. None of mine (wife's excluded) have a computer. My "new" 700r4 has the lockup wired to engage in 4th and unlock all other times (also adding a dash override switch) If I was arguing with a computer all the time I might feel differently.

 

[Martinjmpr]

Why does everyone seem to think you can't downshift an auto or use it for controlled descents? That lever has other positions than D.

Good point. I often drive my auto-equipped 4runner like a manual, especially when pulling the trailer. I go back and forth between 4th and OD, and if I start climbing a steep hill I'll drop it down to 3. Going downhill I normally drop it out of OD, sometimes down to 3rd, off-road I'm often switching between 1-2 (nice thing about the Toyota A740 is that it has gear selection for all 5 gears, not all autos have that.)

 

[redthies]

I'm keeping my eyes open for a 3500 Dodge, and just read a very similar thread on Cummins Forum. The majority over there say autos are better overall. I was leaning towards a six speed, but between the wife giving stink eye for ever (she hates manuals), and hearing about all the problems discussed by t&a xj, I think I'll vote for the auto. Easier coffee drinking clinches it!

 

[Betarocker]

I prefer the manual for winter driving; shifts occur when you want them. I hate the manual when I visit the city and encounter heavy traffic.

In the 8 years since I have owned my current truck, I have only bump started if out of necessity twice; Once due to weak batteries and once when the starter went out.

 

[Scott Brady]

Manual transmissions are pure. You use one for the same reason to buy a Triumph Scrambler - a nod to things classic, things that engage the driver. A mechanical connection to the machine in a technology-driven automotive world filled with drive-by-wire, park assist and adaptive cruise control.

A 'practical' or 'functional' argument for the manual doesn't work. An automatic has superior performance on the street and in the dirt. I actually drive a manual because it is more difficult. It makes it more fun - not better.

 

[jarmentrout]

I've had both, but ruined an expensive-to-fix auto on an off-road excursion. But I used to sub my services to rebuild Volvo manual transmissions for a local independent shop, so am comfortable fixing manuals and could even make one functional in the middle of the boonies if I had to.

Another reason is that I believe that I can get better gas mileage than the same vehicle as an auto. (Well i could if I chose to but the Saab 93 is just too much fun to kick in the boost) So far from the forums I am pretty sure the my fuel range is significantly better with the manual than the autos. Which is a primary concern where I travel.