Opinions on tensioner failure. shop trying to put it on me.

[redraif]

So I'm sure some of you guys saw my thread about my engine noise that showed up after the shop left the timing tensioner pulley loose on the Sport.

http://www.expeditionportal.com/for...owing-issues-w-the-Sport-new-clattering-noise

Well he is trying to say the failure was simply a coincidence. That the hydralic portion failed not the pulley part. That his guy left the pulley part disconnected not the hydralic part, ergo the failure is not on him.

I dont know enough about how these parts interact with one another when properly versus improperly installed. Would the pulley part being left disconnected cause the failure?

I told him that to me, the coincidence is way too strong. The noise happened prior to the complete failure and was assumed to be the pulley rubbing on the timing cover. When it was left discnnect and wore a hole in the timing cover. Then the same noise returned intermittantly directly after the repair. Of which i told them about. I also told him I thought the tensioner needed to be replaced when he disovered the techs initial error. He said he thought it was fine. He chose to not repair it then.

In my opinion the labor should fall on him for not heading my advise to proactively change it wen the error was discovered.

What do you guys think? Would the pulley being left disconnected cause the hydralic part to fail?

It's a 2001 with the 3.0l.

 

[clmrt]

It's time to man up and pay, or flatbed the thing somewhere else and pay anyway. The shop is telling you that they are done trying to do the right thing and they want you gone.

 

[redraif]

It's time to man up and pay, or flatbed the thing somewhere else and pay anyway. The shop is telling you that they are done trying to do the right thing and they want you gone.

Wow what a helpful reply! Ok ill repay them again the full labor for a timing job that i just payed for 25,000 miles ago... not to mention the labor i just payed an oil change ago or so ago... to have the new water pump replaced that was inluded in that timing job. Such great advise.... nice you have so much money to just thow away without investgation.

To the point i asked if the tension being left disconnected would or could cause the hydralic portion to fail?

 

[PA_JERO]

Sounds to me like you should have used a different shop man. Also, our opinions don't matter at this point. Damage is done and we are not involved with the verbal or written agreements you discussed with this shop. A tensioner will ruin and has ruined many mitsu motors from NOT being replaced when timing job is done because people are cheap. Most mechanics (non mitsu mechanics) will assume they are fine, when they are not. Also, what kind of parts was the shop installing on your vehicle? If they replaced these extremely important parts with cheaper aftermarket parts then this will also cause a disaster. I say argue till your blue in the face or they throw you out, especially if you paid good money. But if you used this place cause you thought you found a deal that was to good to be true, than that's what you get. This is why I due ALL of my own work, because know one will care more about your vehicle than you.

 

[Toasty]

It sucks man but these dudes are right, If this was the Mitsubishi dealer you might have a chance but not an independent shop. Even if you do manage to get them to accept it as their problem and fix it under a workmanship warranty they WILL take every shortcut and bandaid possible leaving your truck even more unreliable than before. If you can't do the work yourself and want to save yourself some money just take it to the dealer and explain the situation and pay to get it done right. Bottom line is that you payed someone who was unqualified to do the work and now you need to accept the loss and never let them touch the truck again.
If you choose to try to get some sort of resolution from the shop, try to get some of your money back. It's a long shot but if you stay calm and explain to them how it was their poor quality of work that lead to costing you a motor MAYBE they'll refund the labor or some of it just to wash their hands of you. I know you don't want to hear this stuff but that's just how it is unfortunately, some of us have been there and learned the hard way as well.

 

[redraif]

Sucks cause this shop was supposed to be import experts. I think its more like Honda experts.

This is what happens when the only Mitsu dealer, in an hours drive, is gone. We only have a Cadillac dealer who sells new Mitsu and does not even know how to order parts.

Well as for doing the work myself... that is what it looks like is my future. We have decided to get a new, new car, so this guy can be pulled from driver duty. That means I will have the time to be able to do repairs myself. I just know with my limited time during the work week and the crazy busy weekends...I could not get the repair done quick enough myself on a driver.

Honestly I think I can work it out with him to at least give me a break on the repairs. I just have to have the ability to say A caused B. As it is, I have in good faith tossed him a bone to help on his end. The cam seals are leaking... I told him do those while you are there.. crank seal might be leaking... do that if it is... There is something for your time. But if your tech grenaded the tensioner, you can't charge me the whole labor as if this was a fresh timing job!

 

[BEG]

Redraif, I'm sorry to hear you're still having this issue. I know you're looking for a straightforward, A+B=C answer, but it's not that easy. I don't remember the specifics of your situation, but if the eccentric tensioner pulley was loose there's no way your engine could keep time. If your pulley bracket was loose, I could see the belt keeping time but allowing the pulley to drift into the timing cover. As long as the hydraulic tensioner piston was still bearing on the bracket, I don't see a major failure possible. The Mitsu timing covers are kind of designed to keep everything in place even if the mounting bolts all backed off.

In my experience, it's more likely that the hydraulic tensioner failed on its own, probably due to the forces exerted on it from the new belt. I had a very expensive lesson when I did my first timing belt job on a 6G74 and didn't replace the hydraulic tensioner because it "tested ok." It failed withing the first 75 miles of driving, moving parts made contact and I ended up shearing the dowel pin of the drivers side cam snout. Whether or not your warning/suggestion to the tech about replacing the tensioner is grounds enough for them to be at fault is debatable.

 

[redraif]

Ok so back and forth we went, the shop and I...

Best I can get with full mitsu dealer parts, plus tax = $450.57
Break down... $319.41 for parts (2 cam seals, crank seal, timing belt, timing tensioner)
Labor for seals... 1.6 = $112 (got to check on this... thought only 1 hour for all seals) anyway...
Free oil change with my choice of oil, so they don't loose my business... ha!

No labor charges for the rest.
I guess since I said, "if you had replaced it when I said it before". Guess that one would have been on me since it was preventative.
I tried my darndest, but I SUCK at negotiations. Seriously I was not built with haggling skills. But in the long run they had me over the barrel and did not have to do anything!

Might be divorced over this one. Lord help the Sport if it has another issue or does not clear its emissions codes... the spouse has a match ready for him! UGH!

 

[IncorpoRatedX]

If they can repair it properly the second time, (hell maybe they had a new tech on the first go around, i dunno) and you're more confident in their work than you are of your own, let them at it.

The short answer on your first post is; it's not likely that the pulley caused the hydraulic tensioner to fail. this part fails catastrophically at 'random'. I say random but they have an expected life span, aftermarket units can fail extremely early, almost out of the box failures have been seen so I tell people 'at random'. Inspection and routine replacement is the only thing you can do with this part. I really wish we had a better variable tensioner, but this is how it is on most timing belt driven motors, which might have something to do with the conversion BACK to timing chains on newer engines.

Hope you get it worked out, sucks you dont have any other montero friends in your area. This job is a saturday in the shade with a six pack and some lawn chairs kind of job. It's really gravy work once you're familiar with the timing parts.

 

[redraif]

Well the ower is doing the job this time. So it should be done correctly! He did the timing job 30,000 ago and the only issue was a premature water pump failure. Thats what started this chain of events. I do plan to get more involved in my own maintenance on this beast. Esp if we can work out getting an in warrenty new newish car! That will take the burdon off me to do it in a rush. Thats whats a pain.

 

[redraif]

ok... someone thought it over and they opted to drop all labor charges.

So right around $338.57... Wow.. I'm quite surprised! Guess when I told them they blew the budget for the civics clutch they got to thinking...

 

[Zeiderman]

They will make it up guaranteed, so in dealerships warranty work is despised because it is flat rate per the manufacturer. So this shop is not getting any manufacturer rebate of parts or labor, and the chances of them completely eating it forever are slim to none. Check that clutch quote you get, it will show up somewhere, somehow. Especially if you're a long time customer.

Sent from my SM-T230NU using Tapatalk

 

[redraif]

I've been working with them since they opened... I'm trying to hope they will remain fair, but I'm sure the labor will appear somewhere! good news... I've never had an issue like this with them prior to this.

Well the whole clutch thing.... I was opting to attempt that myself.. Gulp. But if the dang teens and early 20s ricers can! LOL!

 

[BEG]

I really wish we had a better variable tensioner, but this is how it is on most timing belt driven motors, which might have something to do with the conversion BACK to timing chains on newer engines.

I really would like to try one of these on my 6G74. I'm sure there's some algorithm or something to extrapolate a belt tension value from torque on the bolt for follow-up adjustments:

 

[IncorpoRatedX]

I really would like to try one of these on my 6G74. I'm sure there's some algorithm or something to extrapolate a belt tension value from torque on the bolt for follow-up adjustments:

I'm familiar with these, I didn't mention them because they're not a good solution in my book and not a street car application in my opinion. Constant adjusting would be needed as time goes, to make up for stretch in the belt.