95 LS Crank Pulley Woes... Again.

[MrJeebs]

I very recently spent a LOT of money having the crank pulley replaced on my 95 LS due to it wobbling and being loose. While it was apart, I had them replace the water pump, timing belt, tensioner and idler pulleys, the crank angle sensing blade ( 'cause they bent it getting the old pulley off, and I knew enough to order it and have it on hand ).

It has been a few weeks, and once again, the crank pulley is loose and wobbling. I took it back to them near closing time yesterday evening, where the tech who did the work said that he thinks either the dowel pin broke, or the pulley is coming apart. He says he torqued the bolt to 135 ft lbs, and he used the new bolt and washer that I supplied. I also supplied a new key for the crankshaft, which was not installed. It should be noted that all parts except the water pump and tensioner were Mitsu parts from Southwest Mitsubishi. I asked that the old parts be kept for me to take home, but when I checked the box last night, the old pulley was not in the box, so I don't have one handy to measure myself.

So, since I supplied the failing parts, the shop is not going to honor the warranty on the job, as far as I know at this point.

The questions I have:

Does anyone have the ability to measure the distance center to center, between the 2 holes that are used to stop the engine spinning when torquing the crank pulley bolt, if they have an old one laying around? The mitsu part number for the pulley I need the dims on is MD368262. I am hoping that the bolt simply backed out a bit and can be re-torqued to fix it, but they do not have a tool to stop the motor from spinning. I am in talk with a guy who sells various tools on eBay but he needs the dims of the holes. Also, are the holes on the outer face of the pulley or are they set down in the deeper well of the pulley?

Does the key that is shown in ASA for the crankshaft also help keep the pulley from moving on the crankshaft? I ask because as I said, they did not use the key that I supplied, and I'm wondering if they did put it back together without a key, if that would be part of the problem?

I realize that these questions are elementary for most of you folks, and for that I do apologize. I am not very mechanically inclined, nor do I have the facilities or tools to do this stuff myself, as much as I want to. And apparently, there isn't anyone around here who knows the finer points of working on these trucks.

Once again, I thank you all in advance for your input and time. It is very much appreciated.

MJ

 

[jaccox23]

A homemade tool can be made for under $20 to hold the harmonic balancer in place for torquing the bolt back down. Click the sticky on the homepage of our mitsubishi page and go to the sticky that is for the gen 2.5 peeps and the author has a pic of the tool and you can make it with a simple drill and grinder then a piece of bar stock and 3 bolts. It does indeed sound like the key broke off or pushed in on the crank sprocket. It might be worth a look to take the harmonic balancer off and see if that is the case or perhaps the harmonic balancer is shot. There's a small rubber bushing in the balancer that could have been ruined the first time the bolt backed out causing the wobble now. It's all worth taking the balancer off and having a look for yourself. I wouldn't let the shop do it again if they are not willing to stand behind their work. Especially since you can bet it wasn't the new parts that failed but rather a lack of observation by whoever did the job.

 

[MrJeebs]

A homemade tool can be made for under $20 to hold the harmonic balancer in place for torquing the bolt back down. Click the sticky on the homepage of our mitsubishi page and go to the sticky that is for the gen 2.5 peeps and the author has a pic of the tool and you can make it with a simple drill and grinder then a piece of bar stock and 3 bolts. It does indeed sound like the key broke off or pushed in on the crank sprocket. It might be worth a look to take the harmonic balancer off and see if that is the case or perhaps the harmonic balancer is shot. There's a small rubber bushing in the balancer that could have been ruined the first time the bolt backed out causing the wobble now. It's all worth taking the balancer off and having a look for yourself. I wouldn't let the shop do it again if they are not willing to stand behind their work. Especially since you can bet it wasn't the new parts that failed but rather a lack of observation by whoever did the job.

Thank you for the reply, jaccox. I as mentioned earlier, I don't have the facility, tools or ability to undertake a job like this. Taking the balancer off is not something I can do myself. The tool that I can buy on ebay is not too much more than $20, so it will be worth it to me to buy it.

The balancer that is in it now is a brand new mitsu part. I'm hoping that it is not already ruined. The bolt and washer are also new mitsu parts.

 

[JohnnyBfromPeoria]

They could just use an air ratchet.

John B.

 

[MrJeebs]

They could just use an air ratchet.

John B.

As the FSM specs 132 to 137 ft lbs, wouldn't an air ratchet run the risk of over tightening the bolt?

Am I correct in assuming that the crankshaft is made of very hard steel, so that there would be no way the key could have gouged out the crankshaft? Or am I mistaken?

 

['round n' back again]

key or woodruff key or half moon key is softer metal than the crank shaft which is machined but not hardened.
the key can be destroyed during install.
it can disintegrate and leave the h.b. with diminished grip on the shaft, this would not necessarily cause a "wobble" but could spin on the crank snout.
wobble confuses me a bit, but if the bolt backed out and the h.b. follows then by unseating itself and riding out to the very end of the snout, its feasible it would then wobble.

eye up your accessory belt. is it in perfect plane ; accessories to crank pulley? any rubber shredding dust from misaligned serpentine belt?

reach down and wiggle pulley , is it loose?
shops are a bad place to expect expert repairs. disinterest, incompetance, end of day,end of week distractions, odd ball cars (monteros, saabs, citreon,)can confuse techs.
or maybe he just forgot to tighten it altogether.
ive done it , anyone on this forum who has worked on their cars has forgotten to tighten . anything is possible but im inclined to think that the bolt was not tight.
or it was overtightened and broke which is a warranty issue.

we/i /me/ have many times used a powerful impact gun on crank bolts, experience on how the gun feels as the bolt gets tight, watching the socket turn, luck and good quality fasteners have got me through many times; maybe this shop didnt get so lucky


im not reccomending an impact gun in place of a good beam torque wrench, just sayin it often happens that torque specs are by guess and by god

 

[MrJeebs]

key or woodruff key or half moon key is softer metal than the crank shaft which is machined but not hardened.
the key can be destroyed during install.
it can disintegrate and leave the h.b. with diminished grip on the shaft, this would not necessarily cause a "wobble" but could spin on the crank snout.
wobble confuses me a bit, but if the bolt backed out and the h.b. follows then by unseating itself and riding out to the very end of the snout, its feasible it would then wobble.

eye up your accessory belt. is it in perfect plane ; accessories to crank pulley? any rubber shredding dust from misaligned serpentine belt?

reach down and wiggle pulley , is it loose?
shops are a bad place to expect expert repairs. disinterest, incompetance, end of day,end of week distractions, odd ball cars (monteros, saabs, citreon,)can confuse techs.
or maybe he just forgot to tighten it altogether.
ive done it , anyone on this forum who has worked on their cars has forgotten to tighten . anything is possible but im inclined to think that the bolt was not tight.
or it was overtightened and broke which is a warranty issue.

we/i /me/ have many times used a powerful impact gun on crank bolts, experience on how the gun feels as the bolt gets tight, watching the socket turn, luck and good quality fasteners have got me through many times; maybe this shop didnt get so lucky


im not reccomending an impact gun in place of a good beam torque wrench, just sayin it often happens that torque specs are by guess and by god

Thank you for the reply R&BA,

The accessory belt moves in and out with the HB when running. It is not a huge amount, I would say 3-6 mm, but it is there. No shredded rubber dust visible. And recently (since this latest repair) I started experiencing random rough idling. I can not reproduce it on demand. I am beginning to think its the loose HB causing the rough feeling. Looking at the HB while running sees the pulley wobble at times, not at others.

The pulley does not feel loose when I try to move it, but I suspect that is due to the accessory belts keeping it in place.

I am still trying to get dimensions on the HB to have a tool made for tightening the pulley. I do not think they have an impact gun small enough to fit between the rad and pulley.

 

['round n' back again]

"The accessory belt moves in and out with the HB when running. It is not a huge amount, I would say 3-6 mm,"

YIKES! you mean fore to aft?!!
front to back?
if so , your bolt is very loose.
or broken, we hope not.
get a socket and ratchet down there and feel for tight.


with impact gun you will have to remove the radiator. you might have to remove it anyway.
you will need a clicker torque wrench
under the circumstnces i would not try impact.
just a good tight with a ratchet and then torque to spec.

Do this first. if bolt is not tight remove it, pull the HB and replace key with new. inspect crank snout, and inside HB for galling. personally, i would buy anew bolt too.
reassemble with newly borrowed hb holder.

tighten like hell with ratchet, then torque to spec
b4 you do this inspect seal for damage as you will have to get back in and change that if you don't catch it while the HB is off.