Help with new rig decision

[Tex68w]

OP, I think you already know the answer to this question. Others calling into question the reliability of late model Ram HD's is BS pure and simple. And a bigger fuel tank on the Tundra doesn't account for much when you'll never see better than 11-13mpg's in it built up and loaded out. And yes, the ride of the PW is better than the Tundra, it's better than the Ford and the Nissan too, the only stock ride that rivals it is that of the GM. Between the two, the PW is honestly a no brainer decision imho.

 

[jgallo1]

If you want a good factory-built offroader, the PW is definitely the most capable option.

But what parts are you considering for the Tundra and what shops are you talking to that would develop a $15k-$20k expenditure?
ARB front + rear air lockers, air compressor, and mild 2" suspension lift, you're looking at ~$5k in parts. Maybe add another $1k-$2k in labor.

I'm not trying to dissuade you from the PW if that's where your heart is set, but I think your shop's "calculations" for the Tundra are a bit off. You could easily build a capable Tundra for less than $8k.

slider, bumper, winch, mounted air compressor, wheels, so i can run 17's, all the tundra i look yet come with 18's. Icon stage 3, control arms, front and rear lockers, rear-gear..

 

[redthies]

I have a 2014 Dodge, and two Toyotas (both older) and the Dodge is every bit as reliable. But the decision for me would probably go PW. I’m just not into 1/2 tons. I know the PW doesn’t have a big payload, but at least it has the frame, axles and brakes to handle the overloading most trucks are likely to incur.

 

[Dalko43]

slider, bumper, winch, mounted air compressor, wheels, so i can run 17's, all the tundra i look yet come with 18's. Icon stage 3, control arms, front and rear lockers, rear-gear..

Okay, but if you plan on adding some of that stuff to the PW, you'll be spending a good deal of money as well.

My earlier point was that to make the Tundra comparable to a stock PW, you don't need to spend $15k-$20k.

OP, I think you already know the answer to this question. Others calling into question the reliability of late model Ram HD's is BS pure and simple. And a bigger fuel tank on the Tundra doesn't account for much when you'll never see better than 11-13mpg's in it built up and loaded out. And yes, the ride of the PW is better than the Tundra, it's better than the Ford and the Nissan too, the only stock ride that rivals it is that of the GM. Between the two, the PW is honestly a no brainer decision imho.

It's not BS. One brand has much better reliability than the other. Plenty of 3rd party surveys and reviews to confirm that.

The bigger fuel tank is ideal for overlanding. The 5.7l iForce isn't known for great fuel economy, but the 6.4l Hemi is even worse. 38 gallons at least gives you a bit more range.

All that said, I was very explicit in stating that the PW has some distinct advantages over the Tundra. Ride comfort isn't one of them, but that's a subjective matter.

 

[Tex68w]

It's not BS. One brand has much better reliability than the other. Plenty of 3rd party surveys and reviews to confirm that.

The bigger fuel tank is ideal for overlanding. The 5.7l iForce isn't known for great fuel economy, but the 6.4l Hemi is even worse. 38 gallons at least gives you a bit more range.

All that said, I was very explicit in stating that the PW has some distinct advantages over the Tundra. Ride comfort isn't one of them, but that's a subjective matter.

As someone who currently owns a PW and with multiple relatives who own Tundra's I am going to fervently disagree with you. Both of my relatives with late model Tundras get absolute dog $hit fuel economy, one of which has nothing more than a set of AT tires slightly larger than factory. A few more gallons of fuel in the tank doesn't make up for horrid fuel economy, it's just a bandage. Now I agree that the larger a fuel tank one can get the better, but it's not a fix. My PW on 37's gets as good if not better fuel economy than my fathers bone stock Tundra, that's pathetic.

In no way over the course of my relatives ownership of their Tundras can one say that their trucks have been any more reliable than that of my own. Does Toyota in general have the best track record for reliability, of course, but that doesn't mean that it's a baseline for every single product that they make. We can sit here and list for days the issues that Toyota owners experience with their vehicles.
We get it, you are a die-hard Toyota fan, that's fine as they make a great product that many of us like (I currently own one myself and have had multiple others in the past), but to just spew inaccuracies about a product line based off of your personal biases and some third party consumer reviews (we know that everyone happy with their products reply to those lol) is silly. Look around in the domestic subforum here and pay attention to what the overwhelming majority of owners in there drive, 4th Gen Ram HD's, if your "theory/opinion" were correct then you would easily see it in those discussions. But here we are again being told by non-owners of these vehicles that those of us that actually own them don't know what we are talking about. That horse is long dead, please stop beating it.

 

[bkg]

Okay, but if you plan on adding some of that stuff to the PW, you'll be spending a good deal of money as well.

My earlier point was that to make the Tundra comparable to a stock PW, you don't need to spend $15k-$20k.

Depends on how you define comparable..

in the end, the Tundra is still a 1/2 ton truck, compared to a 3/4 ton truck
Tundra is IFS front, Leaf rear... PW is coil/solid axle all the way around
PW has front and rear lockers and disconnecting sway bar
PW has more storage (access to rear seats)

To address those 4 deltas alone could be more than $20K to remedy... and then you're dealing with a highly modified Tundra... and that impacts reliability and warranty.

 

[Clutch]

Rumor has it, that Ford is going to release PW competitor.

https://www.autoguide.com/auto-news...ad-super-duty-to-take-on-the-power-wagon.html

 

[Clutch]

One brand has much better reliability than the other. Plenty of 3rd party surveys and reviews to confirm that.

I don't know, think that is perception. Love my Toyotas, and while they are good...do have a long list of repairs to keep them going. My perception is that they are reliable, but my stack of repair receipts would argue otherwise.

Which I think that is what the OP is having trouble with, his perception of reliability over another manufacture that we Toyota fans have.

They are just vehicles, buy the PW, if it starts giving ya trouble off it. But I doubt it will. I want one!

Well, I want a AEV Prospector single cab...beastly!

 

[jgallo1]

I don't know, think that is perception. Love my Toyotas, and while they are good...do have a long list of repairs to keep them going. My perception is that they are reliable, but my stack of repair receipts would argue otherwise.

Which I think that is what the OP is having trouble with, his perception of reliability over another manufacture that we Toyota fans have.

They are just vehicles, buy the PW, if it starts giving ya trouble off it. But I doubt it will. I want one!

Well, I want a AEV Prospector single cab...beastly!

View attachment 495006

One day, add the flatebed

 

[jgallo1]

Rumor has it, that Ford is going to release PW competitor.

https://www.autoguide.com/auto-news...ad-super-duty-to-take-on-the-power-wagon.html

that would interesting

 

[rruff]

As someone who currently owns a PW and with multiple relatives who own Tundra's I am going to fervently disagree with you. Both of my relatives with late model Tundras get absolute dog $hit fuel economy

If you are going to go off anecdotes, it's best to assemble a lot of them. Average MPG for the Tundra 5.7l is ~14mpg. For the Powerwagon gas it's <12mpg. You can make a case that the Powerwagons are likely to do more towing and hauling on average, but I doubt you will close that gap in similar use cases.
http://www.fuelly.com/car/toyota/tundra?engineconfig_id=19&bodytype_id=&submodel_id=
http://www.fuelly.com/car/ram/2500?engineconfig_id=72&bodytype_id=&submodel_id=2208

Same goes for reliability. When I was looking a couple years back the Tundra scored 5/5 on CR. The Ram was 1/5. I've been hearing for at least 30 years that the "new ones are better" but they never are. Of course the Tundra should be pretty reliable since it hasn't had a real update in 12 years

 

[Clutch]

One day, add the flatebed
View attachment 495015

Oh yeah!

I was thinking more on the lines of a service body with a Callen. Shortish wheel base for off-road yet with plenty of storage. And super bare-bones camper.


https://xplorethewild.com/2015/06/18/xplorebaja-camper-build/#jp-carousel-52

 

[tacollie]

The current get PW does better on gas. The previous ones did not. A lot of people run Rams because they are cheaper. I don't think they are the best truck on the market but they are pretty good at this point and you get a lot for your money. Personally I would get a F250.

 

[rruff]

slider, bumper, winch, mounted air compressor, wheels, so i can run 17's, all the tundra i look yet come with 18's. Icon stage 3, control arms, front and rear lockers, rear-gear..

What would upgrading the PW cost to make it comparable? BTW, I paid $31k for my Tundra new 2-1/2 years ago, so you don't have to spend a lot on the base truck.

Is there a reason you want 17s? I liked the idea too, but they don't really fit on the Tundra (brake caliper clearance). The only ones I know of (besides the old Toyota RW rims) that don't stick out too far are the Icons, and they aren't even hub centric. Huge variety of 18" rims and tires though.

 

[Dalko43]

As someone who currently owns a PW and with multiple relatives who own Tundra's I am going to fervently disagree with you. Both of my relatives with late model Tundras get absolute dog $hit fuel economy, one of which has nothing more than a set of AT tires slightly larger than factory. A few more gallons of fuel in the tank doesn't make up for horrid fuel economy, it's just a bandage. Now I agree that the larger a fuel tank one can get the better, but it's not a fix. My PW on 37's gets as good if not better fuel economy than my fathers bone stock Tundra, that's pathetic.

Well YMMV, but the average Tundra owner gets better mpg's than the average 6.4L Ram 2500 owner. It's not a huge difference, but there is a difference nonetheless.
Tundra MPG's
Ram 2500 mpg's

And I seriously doubt that your 6.4l Ram on 37's gets better mpg's than a stock Tundra driving in similar conditions.

In no way over the course of my relatives ownership of their Tundras can one say that their trucks have been any more reliable than that of my own. Does Toyota in general have the best track record for reliability, of course, but that doesn't mean that it's a baseline for every single product that they make. We can sit here and list for days the issues that Toyota owners experience with their vehicles.
We get it, you are a die-hard Toyota fan, that's fine as they make a great product that many of us like (I currently own one myself and have had multiple others in the past), but to just spew inaccuracies about a product line based off of your personal biases and some third party consumer reviews (we know that everyone happy with their products reply to those lol) is silly. Look around in the domestic subforum here and pay attention to what the overwhelming majority of owners in there drive, 4th Gen Ram HD's, if your "theory/opinion" were correct then you would easily see it in those discussions. But here we are again being told by non-owners of these vehicles that those of us that actually own them don't know what we are talking about. That horse is long dead, please stop beating it.

You're talking about anecdotal evidence (relatives' ownership experiences). Go look at any number of ownership surveys or government safety/recall websites (NHTSA is a good place to start). Compare the number and nature of recalls, TSB's and owner complaints.

I'm not saying the Ram is unreliable. I'm saying the Tundra has better reliability. There's an important distinction.