LR3 with only 45K has major failure

[4Rescue]

YIKES!!!!!!!

Yo Northwoods brother... check your running gear mate, I'd hate to see this kind of thing happen to you or your family. I don't like seeing my fellow Expo'ers getting hurt eh.

What's the final story on this accident? Did they roll? did they walk away? I hope everyone's all right.

Cheers

Dave

 

[Mike_rupp]

All that a quality program ensures is that the part will be made to spec. While I'm no engineer, it appears that this isn't a quality issue, but a design issue. Have you ever heard of a Discovery having a catastrophic failure like this in the front suspension? Even 15 year old Discovery radius arms still are working flawlessly.

I think my Honda Pilot has beefier suspension components.

 

[muskyman]

gone

 

[discotdi]

RR sport is forged or cast not stamped. I think we are looking at the results of Ford ownership. LR parts were much more heavy duty on the older trucks. even the interior leather seats etc don't age as well on the new stuff as the old Rover vehicles. Remember Ford wanted to sell 50,000 LRs in the USA per year. Can't keep costs down and pump out that many vehicles from one assembly plant without losing some quality. Ironically though the new products have far fewer problems than the older stuff, at least as far as service related issues, go figure.

 

[Redline]

Holy airbags Batman! Pow!

Not a fan of these things. Looks like the car could almost be 'totaled' for all the airbags that need replacing.

 

[Life_in_4Lo]

this pisses me off b/c i actually started liking these after all the talk here. even with the crap irs... now i'm back to my former belief about the LR3 after seeing this redonkydonk engineering.
funny enough is that i've been with a few discos and they were ok. the control arms were beefy. then again, it had 2 solid axles..

 

[Antichrist]

Have you ever heard of a Discovery having a catastrophic failure like this in the front suspension? Even 15 year old Discovery radius arms still are working flawlessly.

Not to mention the suspension on my '62 88.
Another thing to add to the question of "will it still be drivable in 40 years?"

 

[proper4wd]

Hmm I question some of your assumptions that this is a design failure. Considering how many of these there are on the road, one failure like this points to a defective component. I know that we dont know for certain that this is the only failure of this type, but working at the dealer I never saw, nor heard, or any others.

"My Honda Pilot has beefier suspension components" -- I question this as well. The suspension is actually very beefy, everything is just to scale. For example, it's amazing that considering the lower control arm isn't doing anything to hold the wheel/tire on there, the rest of the suspension held the whole knuckle/hub/tire assembly on there without failing. That is a stress factor way beyond what the parts were designed for.

Also, to clarify, the RR Sport has identical suspension components to the LR3. The RR HSE uses a BMW style suspension in front with two separate lower control arms that are each cast. It is actually pretty much identical to a BMW 740i front suspension.

 

[Life_in_4Lo]

"My Honda Pilot has beefier suspension components" -- I question this as well. The suspension is actually very beefy, everything is just to scale. For example, it's amazing that considering the lower control arm isn't doing anything to hold the wheel/tire on there, the rest of the suspension held the whole knuckle/hub/tire assembly on there without failing. That is a stress factor way beyond what the parts were designed for.

yeah....

that suspension is torn up. first of all, there is no way a lca arm end should be able to rip open and loose the bushing. Those are some tiny bushings btw. There is no physical way that should be able to happen. Look at a Toyota truck ifs (even a $20K Tacoma) and tell me the LR3's are "very beefy". My sedan has way more beefier suspension pieces than the LR3.

it's amazing that considering the lower control arm isn't doing anything to hold the wheel/tire on..the rest of the suspension held the whole knuckle/hub/tire assembly on there without failing

presumably the lca is still held on by the rear mount unless that failed too which would be an utter failure of design. there is nothing amazing about it.

 

[muskyman]

gone

 

[proper4wd]

I disagree; I feel as though I have an excellent idea of what is "very beefy". Are you basing your opinion and analysis of the LR3 suspension solely from what you have read and seen in pictures? If so I find it very hard to place any value in it.

I have taken these suspensions apart and held the pieces in my own hands. While there are certainly some flaws in the design (they don't hold alignments very well), to say that your family sedan has larger suspension components only makes you look foolish.

Regarding the comments about the bushings being small, you're absolutely right. There is no need for a large bushing there. The only movement that bushing has to accomodate is rotational as the LCA moves through its travel. There is no torsion or flexing forces going through it, so there does not need to be a big fat bushing there to flex. Having a fat bushing would only increase the looseness and play in the front suspension.

Champion the Tacoma front suspension all you want; it is undeniable that the LR3 handles better and flexes better.

 

[greenmeanie]

All that a quality program ensures is that the part will be made to spec. While I'm no engineer, it appears that this isn't a quality issue, but a design issue.

If you are not doing 100% inspection all the quality program does is show that statistically you can expect a certain percentage of parts to meet print based on process capabilities. Design for cost and design for quality are both factors that go into every part. Six Sigma is a growing area of engineering which works very well for mass production but is far less effective on low production runs.

 

[Life_in_4Lo]

Champion the Tacoma front suspension all you want; it is undeniable that the LR3 handles better and flexes better.

until the front wheel rips off...

 

[I Leak Oil]

Being in the metal stamping business, we say it all the time. You cannot inspect quality into the part. Metal stampings have their place and like all other manufactured components, how you apply them, their design, their mass, material and manufacturing process all play a roll in the components success or failure. The only fact in this thread is that the part failed horribly. The failure method hasn't been determined.
Jason T.

 

[Mike_rupp]

My point regarding a quality program like Six Sigma was to illustrate the difference between "quality" and design. Most people that haven't been in an operations role think the term quality means how good something is, i.e. the literal definition. In a business operations definition, quality simply means how effective the production process at making repeatable parts that match the specification.

As far as beefiness of the Honda Pilot's arms compared to the LR3: it was an attempt at sarcasm. Considering that the Pilot's suspension is even in the ballpark of the LR3 just shows how pathetic the LR3 really is. For goodness sake, the Pilot is essentially a minivan. Without question the BMW X5's suspension components are beefier than the LR3 arms. The front are forged (they might have switched to cast at some point) control arms and the rear has a massive aluminum casting. Keep in mind that the X5 isn't even described as an offroad vehicle.

Consider this: when the Discovery was coming on the scene in the US, Rovertym started chopping and welding the radius arms to address driveline angle issues associated with a spring lift. There was discussion on the boards that the chopping of the radius arms would jeopardize the integrity of the arms. Now with the LR3, the situation is reversed. Someone in this thread was hoping for aftermarket arms in the hopes that they would be stronger than the factory arms. How depressing is that?